Anyone besides me bothered by how little we know about sea life?

[Puffer Fish]

So, I get a picture of this:

I know from Humann and DeLoach it is a Lined Tube-Dwelling Anemone (unidentifed). Their image is from Venezuela. They are common here in the northern gulf of Mexico. It is not like people just started diving here. So a good guess on the range is Venezula to the northern gulf coast.

How about the Solitary Gorgonian Hydroid? Lives in the Caribbean, Bahamas... how about the northern gulf of Mexico?

It seems to be doing just fine in around 100 ft (versus the 65ft max shown)

Or this guy:

That is a club-tipped anemone...which is listed as not being in Florida. Guess no one bothered to ask the hundreds I see every year.

I don't think it is Humann and DeLoach's fault, just that no one seems to ask if their information is correct...would seem to be easy to have people give corrections.. you would think.

 

[smellzlikefish]

Have you checked the primary literature for range expansions since Humann/Deloach's book came out? Often guides like the one you cited exist to give a brief overview to satiate the curiosity of most people. It sounds like your questions are reaching either beyond the scope of the book, are misidentified (I am tragically unfamiliar with tropical Atlantic invertebrates to double check identifications), or require more current information than this book presents. Faulty information exists in most books in print today for a variety of reasons, but there are ways to correct it through subsequent publications and peer-review processes.

 

[Puffer Fish]

Book was published in 2008... I've know several of those animals lived there 20 years earlier.

I supply a lot of fish images to Dr Roberson from the Smithsonian. He gets an image of a fish somewhere they were not known, and he updates their information.

It is understandable 40 years ago that information was slow to move around and get to the right places, but today...I'm not sure that "books" are the way to keep this information.

The internet has issues.. information is only there as long as someone pays the bills and figuring out how to pay the bills is an on going question.

But, there are at least hundreds of thousands of people that can confirm or add to the data regarding any type of life.

It would be nice if there was somewhere to send the information so that it got updated. My guess is that they are afraid of getting too much information, but that would only happen if the information was wrong.

Would like to think there is a quicker more accurate way to move information to the right place. QUOTE=smellzlikefish;5949986]Have you checked the primary literature for range expansions since Humann/Deloach's book came out? Often guides like the one you cited exist to give a brief overview to satiate the curiosity of most people. It sounds like your questions are reaching either beyond the scope of the book, are misidentified (I am tragically unfamiliar with tropical Atlantic invertebrates to double check identifications), or require more current information than this book presents. Faulty information exists in most books in print today for a variety of reasons, but there are ways to correct it through subsequent publications and peer-review processes.[/QUOTE]

 

[designbysue]

It's not like the sea creatures have borders. They don't know they are supposed to stay in Venezuela, the Bahamas or Florida.

 

[drbill]

Here in southern California where SCUBA Diving became popularized very early, there is still much information about marine life that is not well disseminated. However, I would never expect a field guide, even of the caliber of Humann's, to be a definitive source for information on the natural history and distribution of any species. Your thoughts on a single repository for archiving new information are good in theory, but there will be debate as to which agency does the sorting and archiving of it.

 

[billmackbarnes]

Paul, Ned, Anna, and the others have done a wonderful job of getting the books out there to divers.

I spoke with Paul at Seaspace in Houston many years ago to pick on him about a fish ID and he said his book had been out 15 years and only two people had pointed out the mistake.

I love their books because they are easy to follow and have decent pictures. Many other field guides only have drawing and a description.

The books will have mistakes as we learn more and technology improves and more people are out there taking pictures.

Please don't discount their CD's which have many more images and a wealth of knowledge.

The important thing to remember is that the books are just a starting point. The books point you in the right direction. Then you can start arguing and decide who is right. Your picture might even appear in the next revision!

Paul and Ned are very open to discussion about fish (go figure), fish ID, and are constantly updating missing species, not just ranges and depths.

You also need to remember now that after we ID, then we can start to study behavior. Behavior is so much more involved that just a picture.

We dive Blue Heron Bridge almost every weekend and we get to watch as dwarf frog fish appear, grow, pair off, and (If you are lucky) spawn. Then the eggs get carried out to sea. We haven't gotten to see the eggs mature, yet!

We truly are just starting to scratch the surface underwater.

Bill

 

[Puffer Fish]

Dr Bill, you are absolutely correct, and that was my point. Information is neither collected nor in many cases even looked for.

It is a wonderful thing that any field guides exist, as most research papers are in black and white and very difficult to find. However, they could be one of the places were data is collected, as more than any other source, they have the attention of a great many people.

There is a cost associated with collecting data, but frequent updates allows for more frequent sales. It should be obvious that say 300,000 divers can cover a lot more area than 50 expects can. The problem is, no one is trying. The world is a far different place than it was when books were the only way to learn anything, I would suggest that it is time to do things a bit differently.

Here in southern California where SCUBA Diving became popularized very early, there is still much information about marine life that is not well disseminated. However, I would never expect a field guide, even of the caliber of Humann's, to be a definitive source for information on the natural history and distribution of any species. Your thoughts on a single repository for archiving new information are good in theory, but there will be debate as to which agency does the sorting and archiving of it.

 

[Puffer Fish]

I think the fact that the books exist at all is a wonderful thing. To that end we all owe a debt of gratitude. Your story about Paul is interesting in that I can see no effort being make to know if something is not correct (I don't consider most issues to be a mistake). Glad that was not me, because I could point out at least 50 or so off the top of my head, and I by no means are as knowledgeable as some I know.

30 years ago, there was no way to easily collect information, and a field guide, written in some secular vacuum, would not be expected to show the whole species information. Today, it is neither costly nor expensive to get much more detailed inform. All one has to do is ask.

For example: Chromis Enchrysura reaches a maximum size of something over 6 inches, and while younger ones tend to stick to sand/reef bottom, they are common on wrecks.

Anyone that has done a dive on the Big "O" will get to see lots of these guys, in sizes larger than the maximum shown on the CD, in a location also not shown.

I understand why the data is not accurate, and would not expect them to know this, but that is only because they don't ask to know it.

Not much into the "what species of Damsel fish is this?" arguments, but would like to see more accurate information somehow get updated.

Note: I love their guides, as there is nothing even close in quality. But economic reality is, that their guides will actually prevent anyone else from making a guide and doing it differently. So in the end, the only ones in a position to collect information is them.

Paul, Ned, Anna, and the others have done a wonderful job of getting the books out there to divers.

I spoke with Paul at Seaspace in Houston many years ago to pick on him about a fish ID and he said his book had been out 15 years and only two people had pointed out the mistake.

I love their books because they are easy to follow and have decent pictures. Many other field guides only have drawing and a description.

The books will have mistakes as we learn more and technology improves and more people are out there taking pictures.

Please don't discount their CD's which have many more images and a wealth of knowledge.

The important thing to remember is that the books are just a starting point. The books point you in the right direction. Then you can start arguing and decide who is right. Your picture might even appear in the next revision!

Paul and Ned are very open to discussion about fish (go figure), fish ID, and are constantly updating missing species, not just ranges and depths.

You also need to remember now that after we ID, then we can start to study behavior. Behavior is so much more involved that just a picture.

We dive Blue Heron Bridge almost every weekend and we get to watch as dwarf frog fish appear, grow, pair off, and (If you are lucky) spawn. Then the eggs get carried out to sea. We haven't gotten to see the eggs mature, yet!

We truly are just starting to scratch the surface underwater.

Bill

 

[Rick Murchison]

Anyone besides me bothered how little we know...??

Well, no, not bothered, not surprised either...
When you think about it, we've only been scratching around under water for a very short time as serious taxonomy goes. Before 50 years ago if it didn't come up in a net it didn't exist! So on the contrary to being bothered I'm rather amazed and gratified at how much work has been done and how much info there is already available to us as amateur marine critter enthusiasts.
And, the field is wide open to anyone who wants to get in there and name a new critter after their mom
Rick

 

[Thalassamania]

We too the Deep Rover submersible out for a dive off Lee Stocking Key in the Bahamas. As an after thought the pilot picked up a small rock at about 800 feet and put it in the basket. Aside from finding green algaes that should not live that deep we found eight unidentified organisms, who of which were new genera.