Anybody know anything about the dive boat that sunk this morning?

[KathyV]

I tried to look a little further into whether a Captain's license is generally required to drive a dive boat. I know that the liveaboards I've been on have always made it clear that they had a Captain and a relief Captain onboard during the cruise so that they always have a qualified professional running the boat.

But as I mentioned, on land-based dive boats in various parts of the world I have seen the divemasters taking turns driving the boat and leading dives and so I didn't think that a captain's license was required. Although I imagine that some dive ops may choose to set their own requirements.

I couldn't find any info about Mexico or Cozumel, but I did find this information about a organization on Grand Cayman that trains dive professionals at http://www.goprocayman.com/ that includes this statement:

"In order to make you a more complete professional, we also offer IYT (International Yacht Training). This course will teach you how to drive a dive boat safely. This certification is recognized worldwide."

I'm not so sure about the worldwide recognition, but it doesn't sound like a full captain's license is required to drive a dive boat in the Caymans. But perhaps out of respect, one should refer to the individual driving the boat as the Captain, even when they are taking turns at the job?

 

[Wookie]

I'm not so sure about the worldwide recognition, but it doesn't sound like a full captain's license is required to drive a dive boat in the Caymans. But perhaps out of respect, one should refer to the individual driving the boat as the Captain, even when they are taking turns at the job.

It's always a touchy subject to me, as I think a Captain implies a certain level of professionalism and knowledge, something beyond skills driving a boat. A captain might look over his boat when he gets on it, looking for things like, oh, I don't know, maybe a working bilge pump, or a broken hose clamp (which happens far more often than you night think) or a leaky shaft packing gland or a corroded through-hull.

I taught an Apple xServe early 2009 to drive the Spree. What I couldn't teach it is all of the things Captain's do. Like not sink the boat.

 

[KathyV]

It's always a touchy subject to me, as I think a Captain implies a certain level of professionalism and knowledge, something beyond skills driving a boat. A captain might look over his boat when he gets on it, looking for things like, oh, I don't know, maybe a working bilge pump, or a broken hose clamp (which happens far more often than you night think) or a leaky shaft packing gland or a corroded through-hull.

I taught an Apple xServe early 2009 to drive the Spree. What I couldn't teach it is all of the things Captain's do. Like not sink the boat.

I've always felt that way, too. Although I have great admiration for professional divemasters and instructors, I've considered licensed captains to be in a separate category, probably because of my liveaboard experiences - hence my reference to the "boat driver", but I did not mean to sound disrespectful.

 

[ReefHound]

To be fair, do you know for sure the DM driving the boat does not have a captain's license?

 

[Wookie]

To be fair, do you know for sure the DM driving the boat does not have a captain's license?

Not at all, but try as I might, I can't find any reference to Mexican Mariners, Captains, Deckhands, charter fishermen, dive boat skippers, or any kind of licensing requirement.

 

[Wookie]

To be fair, do you know for sure the DM driving the boat does not have a captain's license?

If I were going to guess, and this is only a guess, I'd guess that the prospective dive boat driver goes to the port captain and makes his application, maybe even in writing. The Port Captain evaluates the skills of said perspective captain and allows him or not to drive a boat out of his Marina. This may be a regional permission, as in, Cozumel recognizes reciprocity with PDC, Cancun, Isla Mujeres, and Akumal, but maybe not Progresso and certainly not Los Cabos.

It isn't a bad system, but it relies completely on subjective evaluation. The American system is just as bad, it relies on testing only, no practical examination.

The system that Kathy mentioned above (ABYC) is a nice combination of both. I do not qualify to be either Captain or Engineer on a AYBC Yacht, as I've never been evaluated by anyone. There are not that many ABYC evaluators out there, and only 2 in the US, one in FLL and one in San Diego.

 

[Sloeber]

All water tour operators in Cozumel must have boat Captains on board the boat. To be a Captain you must register with the Port Captain, take a physical exam, medical exam, drug test, and written exam. If you pass all these qualifications you are awarded the marinero or mariner's permit. This entitles you to be a deckhand, essentially. In theory all boats in Cozumel are suppose to have one Captain and at least one Mariner on the boat. I forget the number of ocean hours or days required on the water before the permits can be upgraded, but it is a fairly substantial amount of time before one becomes a Captain. Both the Captain and Mariner must be born in Mexico. Both the mariner and Captain are required to carry their permits with them at all times when operating the vessel, so in theory you should be able to request to see it. Oftentimes the mariner is also the DM.

Ultimately the Captain is responsible for the boat. I think why there may be some confusion about this among tourists is often in Cozumel the DM speaks decent enough English while the Captain is from the Yucatan and speaks little if any English, thereby forcing the DM to appear as to be in charge. I can only speak for our boat and our boat briefings, but we do notify you that our Captain is in charge. In the diving industry, at least insofar as where I have been diving or employed, the DM is always the one that does the boat briefings - not the Captain.

 

[RayfromTX]

^this^ is exactly what I have been told by other sources. The captains are proud of their knowledge, skills and their status. They earn more than they are paid and there is a tip sharing that happens so when you tip your dive master, part goes to the captain but it is still not nearly enough. On rough days, the captain works harder, tip accordingly. On trips to the south end, tip enough to make them want to do it with a smile. A good captain is worth as much as a good dive master but a bad captain can ruin a trip far worse than a bad DM. Bobbing in rough seas for half an hour is no fun and it can get far worse than that.

 

[StackDR]

Well...now I know why my Jan 4th diving at Cozumel (with Royal Caribbean via Sand Dollar Sports) was cancelled late on Jan 3rd while we were en route.

 

[mediumone]

A good captain is worth as much as a good dive master but a bad captain can ruin a trip far worse than a bad DM. Bobbing in rough seas for half an hour is no fun and it can get far worse than that.

Couldn't agree more.

Add to that, getting dropped in the wrong place, requiring a swim against the current.... I burn through my air quite fast enough already, thank you.