Any downsides or upsides of OW qual in a quarry?
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halocline
Contributor
I'm afraid I totally disagree with this. In all skill training, it's standard to start in the most forgiving, easiest environment possible. It would be much better IMO for this person to do OW in warm clear water, and then (only then) with some initial experience, continue training in the more challenging cold environment.
This topic comes up frequently. The idea that you should learn to dive locally in order to continue diving locally has some merit, and the idea that you should learn to dive in difficult conditions with an instructor rather than on your own is also certainly valid. I just don't think it should be your first dive experience to dive in cold dark water. There is absolutely no reason why someone certified in the easy warm clear conditions of the caribbean or FL can't come home with some positive experience and confidence, and then tackle the quarries with an instructor, either in AOW or just some specialty courses.
I've been an educator for a really long time, and in no other complex skill training activity is it advocated to begin training in more challenging settings.
It is true that most divers who get certified don't continue. To me that's a condemnation of the dive education system we have, not an endorsement. Many of these divers are turned off or intimidated by poor conditions in their OW classes. In Roatan it was fairly typical to have OW students from cold climates give up and finish their cert down there, to great success. In fact, the idea of doing a OW class at a resort like that, (coconut tree in my case) then spending a week diving everyday, usually with the instructor who certified you, is a huge step up from what I see happening with OW classes locally.
BettyRubble
Contributor
I had a slightly different thought process. Thought I would get cert'd locally, as quickly after classroom/pool as possible and then build skills diving locally (all quarry - Dutch). I wanted to get 4-5 dives in in conditions that are 'manageable' for me as a newbie. IMHO there are fewer variables at Dutch then say off the FL keys. Plus I'm working through alot of stupid 'newbie' mistakes at the quarry. Besides, after diving a 7 mm wetsuit, I figure tropics will be a breeze!! LOL
I'd be concerned waiting too long between pool and OW cert. There was a 1 month lag between my pool and OW cert and I got back in the pool the week before cert to review again before checkout dives. It helped.
Plus if you get cert'd here and get some dives under belt before AOW, I think there is value in that. There is alot of debate about how useful AOW is if it is done back-to-back with OW. Some folks here may post the links to the threads on that topic. It might be a good read through for you.
Oh and, the vis at Dutch is better then I thought it would be. Not sure which quarry you'd be diving, but Dutch is very doable.
I'd be concerned waiting too long between pool and OW cert. There was a 1 month lag between my pool and OW cert and I got back in the pool the week before cert to review again before checkout dives. It helped.
Plus if you get cert'd here and get some dives under belt before AOW, I think there is value in that. There is alot of debate about how useful AOW is if it is done back-to-back with OW. Some folks here may post the links to the threads on that topic. It might be a good read through for you.
Oh and, the vis at Dutch is better then I thought it would be. Not sure which quarry you'd be diving, but Dutch is very doable.
Buoyant1
Contributor
I did my first ever dives in the Florida keys on a "resort" course. I planned on taking private lessons to get certified with a friend who is an instructor, then doing my OW's in Florida on a vacation. Getting pool time with a private person wasn't easy, and I had to scrap that idea. A shop opened up near me, and I was able to take my classes through them, I also still considered taking my OW's in Florida, because I didn't think quarry diving was that appealing to me. I happened to be on a trip with the wife of one of the instructors, and she told me that the quarry wasn't a bad place to dive, and that it would be better than I thought. (and would cost no more to take my OW there anyway)
So I took my OW's in a local quarry (Bainbridge, PA) and she was right, it wasn't as bad as I imagined. (but didn't think I was suited for quarry diving as a rule)
After that I did a few more dives in Florida because we had a friend that lived in Key West. Once he moved back to PA I was faced with not diving for LONG periods of time. SO I talked to a few people at the shop and hung out with a few OW classes just to get wet, took Nitrox and did a few dives there again, then got hooked on it! The past 4 years I've been going every Wednesday night in the summer, and the past 3 years I've purchased memberships to the quarry. The quarry is VERY challenging, and very fun! I enjoy it as much as when I get to Florida every year, but I get to dive MUCH more!
So to answer your question honestly, there is no advantage OR disadvantage to getting ceritified in one place or the other, other than time frame. I have experienced both easy and challenging dives in both PA and Florida. One of my favorite dives was in the quarry to 100+ feet, with maybe 5-6 feet of visibility over a part of the quarry I hadn't seen prior to that. One of my other favorite dives was a dive off Key Largo on the Duane in a pretty ripping current (but in 50-60 feet of visibility) Two entirely seperate challenges!
My best advice to you is to take your OW cert in the quarry, do some local diving to get a little better at it, then work at getting your AOW. (please don't chump it by taking photo, and boat as electives, take something challenging!)
Like someone else said, unless your local shop (or the place you planned on using in Florida) has some sort of special package to get both, there's no hurry to get AOW.
Seeing that you are from Maryland, there is a shot that they may come to Bainbridge for you to do your dives, Ok, it's cold (below 20-30 feet) It's murky (not dark) and there ARE plenty of fish to see! (and if you go in late summer early fall, there are freshwater jellyfish (no stingers) to see.
Good luck! Hopefully some of this helps your decisions...Diving is diving no matter where it is, and if you want to stick to it and dive locally, you may as well get acclimated to the quarry now!
So I took my OW's in a local quarry (Bainbridge, PA) and she was right, it wasn't as bad as I imagined. (but didn't think I was suited for quarry diving as a rule)
After that I did a few more dives in Florida because we had a friend that lived in Key West. Once he moved back to PA I was faced with not diving for LONG periods of time. SO I talked to a few people at the shop and hung out with a few OW classes just to get wet, took Nitrox and did a few dives there again, then got hooked on it! The past 4 years I've been going every Wednesday night in the summer, and the past 3 years I've purchased memberships to the quarry. The quarry is VERY challenging, and very fun! I enjoy it as much as when I get to Florida every year, but I get to dive MUCH more!
So to answer your question honestly, there is no advantage OR disadvantage to getting ceritified in one place or the other, other than time frame. I have experienced both easy and challenging dives in both PA and Florida. One of my favorite dives was in the quarry to 100+ feet, with maybe 5-6 feet of visibility over a part of the quarry I hadn't seen prior to that. One of my other favorite dives was a dive off Key Largo on the Duane in a pretty ripping current (but in 50-60 feet of visibility) Two entirely seperate challenges!
My best advice to you is to take your OW cert in the quarry, do some local diving to get a little better at it, then work at getting your AOW. (please don't chump it by taking photo, and boat as electives, take something challenging!)
Like someone else said, unless your local shop (or the place you planned on using in Florida) has some sort of special package to get both, there's no hurry to get AOW.
Seeing that you are from Maryland, there is a shot that they may come to Bainbridge for you to do your dives, Ok, it's cold (below 20-30 feet) It's murky (not dark) and there ARE plenty of fish to see! (and if you go in late summer early fall, there are freshwater jellyfish (no stingers) to see.
Good luck! Hopefully some of this helps your decisions...Diving is diving no matter where it is, and if you want to stick to it and dive locally, you may as well get acclimated to the quarry now!
JimLap:
I don't teach AOW. I recently issued an AOW card because a student needed an Advanced card for some planned dives. I was able to do this because she's completed all the requirements for AOW on her way to qualifying for Advanced Plus. We're still working on those requirements.
I require a minimum of 25 logged dives before I teach Advanced Plus, but honestly, if they are merely taking the typical AOW class, there's no reason to wait. There's nothing to the class.
mattboy:
I think you misunderstood what he was saying. If you didn't, I did. I took it as him recommending getting his checkout dives in the most demanding conditions appropriate for a novice.
I've noticed if I conduct check out dives in 3 ft seas, my students do well and are quite comfortable in similar conditions on their own. If seas are glassy when they do their checkout dives, my former students are much more nervous when they first run into 3 ft seas.
mattboy:
I agree, but as long as people are willing to buy the short courses, they will continue. I'll never teach one, but they'll still be in the majority.
Buoyant1
Contributor
Walter, what do you do for Advanced Plus?
The biggest advantage of being AOW certified in a quarry is you learn how to use a compass. In the ocean where you have limited vis. 20-150 feet, all you need to do is look for the object when getting closer. In the quarry where you have great vis. 3-15 feet usually it makes things too simple.
Try to get as many dives in as possible to develope your skills. Remember your C-card is your learners permit to develop your skills, and discover the underwater world.
Try to get as many dives in as possible to develope your skills. Remember your C-card is your learners permit to develop your skills, and discover the underwater world.
Buoyant1:
Advanced Plus is an SEI Diving course. It requires: (Additionally, I require)
Classroom:
Underwater Navigation, Night & Limited Visibility, Deep Diving, Diver Rescue, Boating Safety, Dive Environment (Search & Recovery, Advanced Physics, Diver Preparedness, Dive Planning, Diving Techniques)
CPR Certification is required.
Ten dives are required, including:
Navigation, Search & Recovery, Night or Limited Visibility (I require both), Deep - 4 are required, (Wreck, Float, Beach, Fresh water).
Students are required to complete specific tasks on dives including:
entering with no mask, donning mask underwater, descending to between 50 - 80 ft, remove & replace mask. Neutral buoyancy is required on all dives. Skin diving is required.
sabbath999
Contributor
PADI AOW is a bit of a joke
That depends on who your instructors are and how they run the course... it can be quite valuable if it is done right.
I actually did more than the 1-2 dozen dives. I waited til I had over 70 before starting my AOW. I am also one that learned to dive in my local conditions of cool to cold and low viz water. When I go someplace warm and great viz it is a lot easier as some have said. I still realize that I have no experience in currents or surf but that will come with time.
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