Another accident in Tulum Cave Diving

[Scuba J7]

I'm curious as the report seems to be written in a first person point of view by the instructor in question, but another party states that they sent the report to the agency HQ and accident reports from other events? Gotta love FB.....

Edit: And the instructor spelled his own name wrong? I can see that typographical error (T instead of N) with a dovorak keyboard (which I use), but statistically speaking what's the likelihood he uses one too?

 

[Divin' Ivan]

Do me a favor and go back and reread this -
Dude, you read it again. He did a blind jump.
https://m.facebook.com/groups/399477463449300?view=permalink&id=1361547317242305

Then make your speculations.

 

[CptTightPants21]

I'm curious as the report seems to be written in a first person point of view by the instructor in question, but another party states that they sent the report to the agency HQ and accident reports from other events? Gotta love FB.....

Edit: And the instructor spelled his own name wrong? I can see that typographical error (T instead of N) with a dovorak keyboard (which I use), but statistically speaking what's the likelihood he uses one too?

Another diver who was part of the recovery has posted a statement on the board. He listed his name and certification numbers. It matches many of the points made by Alessandro and even makes some of the events look much worse.

 

[boulderjohn]

Because I am already actively involved in this thread, I cannot be part of its moderation. Due to the date, it is very possible that there will not be much in the way of moderators online today to deal with it, though. I will try to make a few comments related to ScubaBoard policy and the coming moderation of this thread that may be helpful gonig forward. This post will be me speaking primarily as just another diver (and a cave diver in particular), but I will refer to the SB policies about these threads.

As I said before, I remain baffled by the events in large part because there has been absolute confirmation of the fact that a team exiting the cave saw Amy alone, calm, and seemingly unconcerned about anything going on with her dive. She even made way for them to exit the cave. This is normal protocol for someone who is entering the cave--the exiting team has the right of way. But that suggests both that she was entering the cave (which makes no sense) and that she felt no urge to join or follow a team that was exiting the cave (which makes no sense). Consequently, I am trying my best to reserve judgment until I am a little less baffled.

On the other hand, some of the actions of her buddy/instructor are also baffling and seem to make no sense whatsoever. This makes it an unusual A&I thread because it is almost impossible to talk about it without making blaming statements about the individual's actions and the agency involved, but we have a rule on ScubaBoard against "blamestorming." If you read the recent thread in which we discussed the policies for A&I, then you know that this rule is troublesome mostly because it is so very hard to understand. It is also troublesome because of threads like this, where it is close to impossible to avoid it.

One (and only one) of the dangers of blamestorming is that you can bring real harm to an individual in a case in which the "facts" are not really clear and may in fact be incorrect. In another social media site's discussion of this, one of the participants made a list of the "facts" that we know about the case. Almost every one of the "facts" he listed was actually an opinion about the incident. In the famous Gabe Watson case, social media went wild with accusations about his actions, and the "facts" presented sure made it look like his actions were criminal. I believe the murder charges brought against him were caused by the DA's desire to respond to that social media blamestorm. His eventual acquittal came about when it turned out that most of the "facts" that drove the social media blamestorming were flat out wrong.

My suggestion is for people to be very careful about what they say. I caution against leaping to conclusions and making pronouncements about what should be done to specific people and agencies in response to this. I suggest we avoid dogpiling--posting a swarm of posts that say essentially the same thing. Please think carefully before you post.

 

[MMM]

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A ScubaBoard Staff Message...

As stated above, the forum rules prohibit blamestorming. One of the simplest tests is whether a comment seeks some form of retribution. That is not done in accident analysis; that is for courts or professional bodies to determine. Accident analysis looks at the facts that are known, and identifies how their outcomes might be avoided in future. Also, posts calling into question the person's character or intelligence are inappropriate. That is merely opinion and is off-topic. Some recent posts that sought to assign blame and the appropriate retribution have been edited. Please use this as a minimum yardstick to adhere to forum rules in order to prevent your post from being edited or deleted. Here's a link to the sticky elaborating on this forum rule for those who haven't read it or have forgotten it Mishap analysis & "Blamestorming" : Marg, SB Senior Moderator.

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[boulderjohn]

A post related to this case was recently made in the Cave Divers Forum. Because that site requires membership for viewing, I have repeated it below. It purports to be from someone representing the Arriaga family:

I am representing the Arriaga Family and we have had an ongoing investigation for 5 months since Amy Arriaga lost her life on November 26th, 2016 in the Gran Cenote, Tulum, Mexico. We have recovered all of her dive computer data, made a full map of her dive and she died due to MAJOR IANTD instructor failure, following the basic protocol. He changed the position from number 2 diver to number 1 diver by swimming ahead to video her, he lost sight of her and instead of swimming back from last contact point, he removed all lines, markers, including hers, and left her behind in the cave system. He did not initiate a lost diver search, but reentered the system with half empty tanks, he went to other areas of the Gran Cenote where they have never been, looking for her and eventually gave up. While back on the parking lot looking for new tanks, he took the time to have a cigarette. All of this while Amy was desperately trying to find her way out according to her dive computer data, but couldn't find her lines that her instructor had removed, she eventually ran out of gas and died, a very slow dead while her instructor was having a cigaret at the parking lot. Yet, IANTD did not suspend him immediately, but 48 hrs later he was in the water again with students. We have a VERY serious problem with safety protocol here. I will post a more detailed report, once our 5 months investigation is completed and filed with the Mexican Authorities.​

 

[dreamdive]

, but we have a rule on ScubaBoard against "blamestorming." If you read the recent thread in which we discussed the policies for A&I, then you know that this rule is troublesome mostly because it is so very hard to understand. It is also troublesome because of threads like this, where it is close to impossible to avoid it.

One (and only one) of the dangers of blamestorming is that you can bring real harm to an individual in a case in which the "facts" are not really clear and may in fact be incorrect. another social media site's discussion of this, one of the participants made a list of the "facts" that we know about the case. Almost every one of the "facts" he listed was actually an opinion about the incident. In the famous Gabe Watson case, social media went wild with accusations about his actions, and the "facts" presented sure made it look like his actions were criminal. I believe the murder charges brought against him were caused by the DA's desire to respond to that social media blamestorm. His eventual acquittal came about when it turned out that most of the "facts" that drove the social media blamestorming were flat out wrong.

My suggestion is for people to be very careful about what they say. I caution against leaping to conclusions and making pronouncements about what should be done to specific people and agencies in response to this. I suggest we avoid dogpiling--posting a swarm of posts that say essentially the same thing. Please think carefully before you post.

Really! Wish that advice would have been given in other posts on this board!

 

[The Chairman]

Really! Wish that advice would have been given in other posts on this board!

If you feel any posts violates the ToS, please hit the report button and let the staff know. Thanks in Advance.

 

[wgw04024]

That seems like an odd thing to do by removing all lines and markers, while you have a student unaccounted for in a cave doesn't it?

 

[Jack Hammer]

That seems like an odd thing to do by removing all lines and markers, while you have a student unaccounted for in a cave doesn't it?

It's extremely odd unless they thought the other diver had left the system. Even then, protocol is to leave all lines and markers in place and retrieve them later in case they are still inside.