An avoidable tragedy...

[rcohn]

I've been able to do 4 dives on the Yukon during business trips to SD. The dive is roughly equivalent to the Chester Poling a popular wreck dive off Cape Ann Massachusetts. 100 ft deep at the sand, varying current, vis a little less than the Yukon's, typically 15 to 20 ft. Here all dive boats I know of would require AOW certification to do the dive. Many require a pony bottle as well (not Cape Ann Divers who I've used).

When I did the Yukon the first time there was a woman with only about 10 dives, she had trouble when descending and never did make it to the wreck. Another was wearing a surfer's 3 mm wetsuit (I was in a drysuit). My last trip I was buddied with a diver who had trouble on his last dive a year ago and was nervous about diving in general. The Yukon is not a place I would choose to work out psychological problems! I asked the boat captain about required levels of diver training, but he saw no need for higher certification than BOW.

IMHO the divers need to get a clue and have more respect for this dive. Initial experience and personal issues should be worked out in shallower shore dives and boat dives like the Coronados. While most AOW classes teach very little, at least the diver has done a deeper dive under an instructor’s supervision. Some sort of standards may need to be enforced by the dive boats to try to prevent tragedies such as this. Diver training is certainly more valuable than full-face masks and comm gear, which will cause more problems (air sharing, surface breathing, increased air consumption, clearing, etc.) for inexperienced divers than they solve.

Ralph

 

[Rick Murchison]

Has the coroner released the cause of death yet? That will have a major impact in determining what happened.
Rick

 

[Mario S Caner]

The cause of the accident still is yet to be disclosed. I agree that diver experience is the key here. A SoCal dive is nothing like a Caribbean dive. It's much more challenging and therefore much more stressful. As for having a minimum cert level requirement: That would be unfair to ask of the thousands of divers whom have been actively diving for years, but choose not to take any more classes. Yes perhaps the training should indeed be a requirement. But you can't deny the fact that the gear I've outlined could have changed the entire headline, story and ending to this tragic story.

 

[Mario S Caner]

Through all of my experiences as a diver, I have something to admit. I hadn't tried any type of underwater communications or full face gear until Friday morning. It just so happens that was the day of the accident...

I'm in the process of putting something together about my impressions. Don't change that channel, and I'll keep you all informed.

 

[Warhammer]

I think it would be better and more fair to require logged dives to at least the depth of the dive at hand in the past 6 months, than to just require an Advanced certification. That way the op knows the diver in question has some experience at that depth and it wouldn't disallow any OW divers that just never bothered to take the Advanced Course.

Like rcohn pointed out, the Advanced Course isn't so Advanced. For instance, I took PADI's Advanced Course this past fall in Jamaica. The only reason I took it there was that the instructor offered a really good deal on it and I was doing the dives anyway, so I took it. I was disappointed, it offered very little in the way of Advanced training. The deep dive we did was a dive to 95', never did I feel the effects of Narcosis, which is what I thought the point of the dive was. The Navigation dive consisted of navigating a square, 30 kicks North-East-South-West, and a straight line again at 30 kicks. Both times requiring that you return to your departure point, which in this case was marked by a tall structure of coral that only once got out of sight the whole time. And of course there was the Night dive, boat dive, and drift dive which consisted basically of just diving. Granted the Jamaician Instructor was doing this for the money vs to teach me something new and most courses are probably better. Course I'd been deeper before with an instructor in a none-class setting, and had also been reading a compass since I was old enough to hunt, so I probably didn't get as much out of it as your average "new" diver. Personally, I think the dive organizations should change the name of the course to something other than what it currently implies.

 

[Mario S Caner]

Some of the problem lies in the phoney badges some clueless divers have sowed on their dive parkas...

The question of labels thrust upon divers from the recreational diving agencies is a complicated one. I don't agree with the amount of B.S. that comes with the cert card, in saying that I mean that the student is given a false sence of reality when they are patted on the back and told they are now advanced. Would a airplane pilot be called advanced after 9 or 10 flights? Would a person just starting Karate be advanced after 9 or 10 classes? Would a boat captain be advanced after 9 or 10 short trips? Would a driver be considered advanced after 9 or 10 trips to the grocery store? The answers to these questions is of course... NO! So why is a diver considered advanced after 9 or 10 dives then? Isn't diving just as if not more hazardous? Doesn't the diver have enough rope to hang themselves with?

The agencies are around to make a buck, that we cannot deny. The fact of the matter is that the motivation of labels also encourages a diver to continue their education. That of course benefits us all. I personally strive to certify everyone around me to at least the Rescue diver level. Only then does the NEW diver begin to leave the (selfish) mentality of me-me-me and begin to look around them, and begin to see what they didn't see. Still then the NEW diver doesn't know what they don't know.

This will most likely be a long ongoing discussion, so I'll stop here and let someone else add their thoughts.

To be continued,

 

[mattiedread]

I have my AOW, with only 23 dives. I've never considered myself 'advanced' though, but now I can go to 100 ft, night diving (which I love)without a hassle.

Incidently, my AOW instructor went on 12 dives with us, and, before certifying me, had my wife and I do a night dive, with just the two of us, and navigate back to the boat, which we did more acurately than the other groups that were out that night. (He felt that we had good skills, having grown up on the ocean, and having been back-country guides for 5 years). But, he wouldn't certify people AOW with just the PADI requirements. We actually booked a three dive trip through his shop (prior to anything) and when he found out we were going, he joined the dive so he could do 3 dives with us before heading out on a liveaboard to get our AOW. Our reviews and discussions were with several instructors/dive masters and it was more of a forum on the boat... very informative for all involved. The discussions about diving/techniques etc lasted well into the night most nights. Between the 15 people, there were 10s of thousands of dives around the world (least of all the Carribean).. and ecology was a common discussion.

The instructor emphasized that this is a certification, and doesn't mean we are advanced divers... which was clearly evidenced by the experience of other people on the boat.

I feel (from speaking with many divers about this), you are not really 'advanced' until you have some diverse experience (night, deep etc.) I personally don't think I'll be comfortable diving over 35ft with just my wife until at least one of us is a rescue diver or we have adequate dives under our belts.

 

[Warhammer]

Sounds like you've found an excellent instructor, I'd stick to him like glue.

 

[Mario S Caner]

Warhammer is right on the money with the recommendation, looks like you've found yourself a good instructor. Perhaps we can plan on having a good/bad recommendation spot with our soon to be Dive-Clubs web page that will allow us to point out to others the instructors whom are truely outstanding, that go above and beyond the call of duty. So that other's can benefit from proper training.

 

[Bsting]

I went to my monthly dive club meeting here in San Diego. Though it was entertaining as usual and we went through the standard oohing and ahing over members film and video presentations, there was a serious lack of information on the recent Yukon tragedy. In fact I was able to let quite a few of them know about this site and what info was offered on the subject.

It may of even resulted in a few new members looking for a new home.

Keep up the good work everyone. Thanks for the info Mario, please keep us posted when you find out more.

B