An age-old question: ways to 60m.

[iliketopetsharks]

No one thinks what?

The stuff i quoted:

Some (not all) people here seem to think that all you need to get outta trouble is to be breathing helium mixes, when in fact it is your skill sets / decision making that (under pressure, if you'll pardon the pun) play a big part.

 

[Kay Dee]

I have a carbon fiber-hulled submersible to sell you...

That the best rejoinder ya got (for what @old frogman said)?

 

[Kay Dee]

The stuff i quoted:

So who died and made you the spokes person for everyone on here? Maybe what I said doesnt apply to you / yours, so thats about the best you can claim, not "no one thinks that".

 

[old frogman]

Theoretically, yes: a risk has multiple factors that you can trade off against each other. The challenge with "assess and evaluate the risk" is, that this is not about your gut feeling and limited personal experience, but about hard data.

Avalanche risk in alpine ski touring is a good example. The physics of snow are complex but well understood, there's a ton of data collected over decades, many professionals working on that risk assessment, resulting in a complex set of rules to make decisions depending on daily specialized local avalanche weather reports, exposition, time of day, slope, and many more. There are thick books about evaluating this risk, decision making flow charts, methods to mitigate certain factors. You take classes about this.

Nevertheless about 100 skiers perish per winter in avalanches in the Alps because they don't understand or don't want to follow the rules. The psychology of "the wreck/mountain is here and now, I can't wait another year, I want to do it now, screw the rules" is always there. They talk about taking an informed decision but what they actually do is just follow their gut feeling and normalize deviance.

Interesting point. You say they do not follow rules. I say they just make bad decisions based on impulse.

Big difference between a calculated decision based on risk management and bad decision based on impulse.

Rules are important as a baseline, but risk management based on context can enhance the rule or disregard it if not valid to the context.

 

[iliketopetsharks]

That the best rejoinder ya got?

Go watch Sesame Street if you want to be entertained.
But the parallels are funny. Rush wanted to build the Titan with carbon fiber because it's much cheaper than titanium. Engineers warned him that this material is unsuitable and he delivered this absolute gem:
"At some point, safety is just pure waste," and "If you want to be safe, don't get out of bed"
That aged well...

 

[iliketopetsharks]

So who died and made you the spokes person for everyone on here? Maybe what I said doesnt apply to you / yours, so thats about the best you can claim, not "no one thinks that".

You made unfounded claims first. Two can play this game.

 

[scubaozy]

I will share some stats; Uluburun shipwreck was excavated between 1982 and 1994. Depth 44m - 61m. Dives were done on air with surface supplied o2 for accelerated decompression, typical bt being 20-30 mins at target depth.
22+k dives and 0 fatalities.

 

[Kay Dee]

You made unfounded claims first. Two can play this game.

What unfounded 'claims' pray tell? And I don't find this a 'game', although you seem too.

 

[Kay Dee]

Go watch Sesame Street if you want to be entertained.
But the parallels are funny. Rush wanted to build the Titan with carbon fiber because it's much cheaper than titanium. Engineers warned him that this material is unsuitable and he delivered this absolute gem:
"At some point, safety is just pure waste," and "If you want to be safe, don't get out of bed"
That aged well...

So now your equating deep air dives with going to the Titanic? Good one. And I sure haven't heard too many people praising Rush for his gung ho attitude either, me included. And seeing as I knew one of the folks on that fateful dive, I am as aware, or more so than many, what it 'cost'.

And I have never said "At some point, safety is just pure waste," I am very into safety conscience, hence one of the reasons why I am still around after 30 odd years of deep diving. As a matter of fact, in retrospect, I have missed out some great dives - that everyone returned from - becasue I was too safety conscious.

You seem to have missed the part where I said / say ad nauseam that I do not advocate deep air dives, nor would / did I do them if helium is available. But I am not at all so risk averse that I would turn them down, depending on conditions, up to an including 65m.

So let me ask you, given you seem to like equating things (Titanic dives / deep air for instance), how many more people do you know that died on deep air than you know that died on OC trimix or CCR?

 

[johndiver999]

I have a carbon fiber-hulled submersible to sell you..

Does it make a lot of noise when you dive it?

Does it come with a free Xbox?