An age-old question: ways to 60m.

[nadwidny]

The only people who whinge about 60m air dives are the ones that actually don’t do them, for those that do, and there’s a lot of them, it’s no big deal.

A "lot of them"??? Now you're just making sphitp up.

 

[CG43]

We humans like and believe what we can do ourselves or what we experience in our environment.
That's a good thing because it makes us adapt to requirements.
As far as deep diving with air is concerned, this causes me a problem.
In sports I was always only good average only in freediving I was above average .
When I started scuba diving it was soon possible for me to dive without problems 45m, 50m, 55m .........93m without any special training. If I now consider that divers like Hall , Gilliam , Raimondo Bucher have dived much more and also had some better conditions than me , then the claimed depths are not only possible but even probable .
And here we are arguing about a depth of only 60m.

 

[SelfDiver]

Except for the numpties that day was 15-20 years ago.

It is a bit problematic to dismiss this question.
This is a "normalization of deviance" discussion but in reverse. The "old" ways worked for a long time and then came the deviants with their "voodoo gas". And all of a sudden, the "tried and true" method became the deviant and Trimix became "the way"
My 2cent opinion: If the question was 80-120 meters, most would say Trimix CCR or OC if you don't dive enough CCR.
Beyond 120 meters it is pretty much CCR.
But between 50-70 is a bit of a grey area because what is "correct" can be hard/expensive/unavaialble.
For me: Dismissing people who dive in the grey area as "dumb" is like saying that legitimate cognitive biases don't exist.

 

[crofrog]

The only people who whinge about 60m air dives are the ones that actually don’t do them, for those that do, and there’s a lot of them, it’s no big deal.

survivorship bias. If you ignore all the bodies in the corner it’s totally safe.

 

[crofrog]

Why bother, don’t you believe the GUE gods that all diving accidents past 100 feet are caused by using air to deep, are you having a crisis of faith.

Gas density tables and recommendations

www.bsac.com

Obviously just GUE.

 

[old frogman]

The accident involving the Rouses had nothing to do with the fact they were diving air as bottom gas.
Shortly after entering the wreck Chris Jr. was trapped by falling debris; loosened silt reduced the visibility to nearly zero. Chris Sr. entered or was already just inside the wreck and began to dig out Chris Jr., further reducing the visibility. After Chris Jr. was freed, the two divers were unable to follow their line out; according to statements by Chris Jr., and examination of their equipment, they evidently began exploring with line for a new exit. During their exit, it appears Chris Jr. experienced some trouble with his primary regulator and switched to his secondary regulator, but it was taking in water. At this time Chris Sr. gave Chris Jr. his secondary regulator and they continued out of the wreck. After finding the exit, Chris Jr. noted it had taken 31 minutes for them to get out, 11 minutes longer then their planned bottom time. They were able to locate only one stage bottle (EAN60) and were so low on air with no more time at depth to search for the anchor line or the remaining bottles they left for the surface. They may have attempted some decompression in mid-water.

Thanks for the synopsis, Celt.

It appears to me that the main cause of the accident was the two divers were unable to find their deco gas. This subsequently resulted in them being unable to decompress during the ascent and consequently suffer DCS.

The fact that they were able to reach the surface suggests that they were not incapacitated by narcosis. If they were incapacitated, they would probably still be inside the submarine today.

I have rescued divers incapacitated by narcosis. They just lie on the bottom asleep with their eyes open.

The fact that both divers were able to resolve all the contributing incidents and reach the surface, despite failing to find their deco gas is, remarkable. They should be respected for their effort.

In conclusion, it needs to be appreciated that this occurred in 1992. Technical diving did not formally exist back then. In fact, many training agencies at the time were vehemently opposed to technical diving. Even Nitrox which on common use today by recreational divers everywhere was opposed by them.

 

[leadduck]

The accident involving the Rouses had nothing to do with the fact they were diving air as bottom gas.
Shortly after entering the wreck Chris Jr. was trapped by falling debris; loosened silt reduced the visibility to nearly zero. Chris Sr. entered or was already just inside the wreck and began to dig out Chris Jr., further reducing the visibility. After Chris Jr. was freed, the two divers were unable to follow their line out; according to statements by Chris Jr., and examination of their equipment, they evidently began exploring with line for a new exit. During their exit, it appears Chris Jr. experienced some trouble with his primary regulator and switched to his secondary regulator, but it was taking in water. At this time Chris Sr. gave Chris Jr. his secondary regulator and they continued out of the wreck. After finding the exit, Chris Jr. noted it had taken 31 minutes for them to get out, 11 minutes longer then their planned bottom time. They were able to locate only one stage bottle (EAN60) and were so low on air with no more time at depth to search for the anchor line or the remaining bottles they left for the surface. They may have attempted some decompression in mid-water.

So you conclude that taking too long to get free from debris, being unable to follow their line out, having trouble finding the exit, not finding their stage tanks, was all just bad luck and had nothing to do with the fact that they had high workload and stress for 30min at 70m/230fsw on air and were certainly severely impaired from nitrogen narcosis?

 

[leadduck]

(...)

I have rescued divers incapacitated by narcosis. They just lie on the bottom asleep with their eyes open.

The fact that both divers were able to resolve all the contributing incidents and reach the surface, despite failing to find their deco gas is, remarkable. They should be respected for their effort.
(...)

Nitrogen "narcosis" doesn't mean you're unconscious, that happens only in extreme cases. It usually means you're mentally slow, sleepy, confused with delayed response, dizzy. Symptoms also include being euphoric, over-confident, making bad decisions; some hallucinate. The Rouses were obviously not unconscious, that doesn't mean they were not severely impaired.

 

[flymolo]

So you conclude that taking too long to get free from debris, being unable to follow their line out, having trouble finding the exit, not finding their stage tanks, was all just bad luck and had nothing to do with the fact that they had high workload and stress for 30min at 70m/230fsw on air and were certainly severely impaired from nitrogen narcosis?

Seems a little bit unlikely doesn’t it?

 

[flymolo]

they had high workload and stress for 30min at 70m/230fsw on air

the water is also quite cold, probably low 40F