An age-old question: ways to 60m.

[PfcAJ]

And trimix at 150-200 is incident free/safe? Asinine

Driving home after a few beers is less safe than the same drive home done while sober.

Being impaired is such a weird thing to advocate for.

 

[nadwidny]

And trimix at 150-200 is incident free/safe? Asinine

And air at 150-200 is incident free/safe? Assinine.

 

[NothingClever]

Just understand that OC is far more forgiving if you can't dive on a regular basis.

+1

 

[Celt]

Do I understand correctly that after TDI ANDP, there are two main ways to go deeper, down to 60 meters?

1. OC Trimix – Take a Trimix course (around 5 days), and then you're good to go. But each dive will cost you an extra ~$250 just for the helium.
2. CCR – Buy a CCR unit and complete MOD1, Helitrox, and Mixed Gas training (about 15 days total, spread out over time). After that, you're free to dive, and each dive costs around $50 for consumables.

Is that correct?

P.S.
I know about Extended range but I am not fill comfortable on air down to 50m....

For you there’s the two options you quoted if you’re not comfortable at 50m on air but you can train and make dives on air to 60m
Autonomous Diver to 60m – PLONGÉE IMMERSION CARAÏBES only you can decide what’s best in your circumstances.

 

[CG43]

It depends on what you want to do in 60 m .

For long dives only CCR remains, for high workload or mental demand helium is necessary .

But if you want to do relaxed recreational dives where max fun is your goal then there is by far nothing that comes close to OC air for a well air deep trained diver .
People will say it's too dangerous because, narcose , hight pPO2 and the gas density is too high.
Tests that led to the value of max. 6g/L were, if I remember correctly, determined at a workload of 150 W on a treadmill. 150 W plus approx. 30 W for the diver itself, is total 180 W. In this case, air deep is not only dangerous it's not funy anymore .
A relaxed diver without much movement will need approx. 30 watts , can then breathe very slowly,
and produces not much CO2 .
This can compensate the high air density for more than 60 m.
CO2 is also very narcotic and increases the sensitivity to high pPO2 .
At low CO2 levels, even 60 m is not as dangerous as is sometimes claimed.

 

[TrimixToo]

Do I understand correctly that after TDI ANDP, there are two main ways to go deeper, down to 60 meters?

1. OC Trimix – Take a Trimix course (around 5 days), and then you're good to go. But each dive will cost you an extra ~$250 just for the helium.
2. CCR – Buy a CCR unit and complete MOD1, Helitrox, and Mixed Gas training (about 15 days total, spread out over time). After that, you're free to dive, and each dive costs around $50 for consumables.

Is that correct?

P.S.
I know about Extended range but I am not fill comfortable on air down to 50m....

I have zero CCR experience, and at this point in my life and dive career I'm not going to acquire it. If I were 20 years younger, it'd be a no-brainer. Warm air for up to 6 hours? Sure! Warmer is good and much more time to get out of trouble is *really* good. But (a) it would never pay me back now and (b) you need to dive a CCR a lot to maintain your skills (this from several active CCR divers who helped me make the decision a few years ago).

Some people do better than others on deep air. I just suck at it. My fairly hard limit for air is 165' and I'd rather do anything deeper than 150' on mix. Yes, it's expensive. But I can think on mix when I can't on air at depth. At 165' I'm probably marginal on skills like tying shoelaces. At 180' I think I'm tying *perfect* knots for which it would be miraculous if they held at all in still water. I have Extended Range. It's a useless cert, for me.

You can dramatically mitigate the cost of trimix by getting your advanced gas blender cert and access to a compressor (and preferably booster, too). When others were paying $250 for a doubles trimix fill my cost was closer to $75. But you have to dive a lot for this to be cost effective unless you can share the costs with someone. Compressor, oil, filters, booster, bank tanks, analyzers...it adds up. It paid me back in a few years but I was doing a lot of trimix diving at the time. It was, however, cheaper than a CCR plus training. YMMV.

 

[Boarderguy]

Hang on…

What is it that you’re saying is asinine?

Asinine’s a pretty strong word (it means stupid or foolish).

If I strive to be a proficient diver and can afford to draw Trimix, am I asinine because I want to mitigate risk?

I’m not asking to start an argument but rather to understand your POV.

I'm saying it's asinine to state that trimix is the only answer to diving deep. There have been incidents on tri and the depth constraints you have for breathing it certain mixes.

Driving home after a few beers is less safe than the same drive home done while sober.

Being impaired is such a weird thing to advocate for.

You don't dive deep air, we get it. Not everyone is as incapacitated as you. I know a few people that can't remember dives below 100 fsw on air. I know quite a few that get anxious and are incapable of making decisions at depth. I'm not one of them. My deep air buddies aren't that way. You only find out how narc affects you by doing it. Keep berating those that choose a style of diving that you don't partake in and fall in line with the rest is the GUE crowd. That's fine for you. Deep air is safe when done so with competent buddies or instructors. Trimix will always make the dive better, but it isn't for everyone.

And air at 150-200 is incident free/safe? Assinine.

Absolutely it is safe when dove in a structured manner.

 

[PfcAJ]

I keep it 10 and 2 and make sure I’m doing the speed limit. The guy riding shotgun makes sure I’m in the lines.

 

[Wookie]

Absolutely it is safe when dove in a structured manner.

Diving isn't safe.

It can be done safely when done in a structured manner, with adequate training, experience, practice, and gradual steps.

 

[NothingClever]

You only find out how narc affects you by doing it.

So, out of the symptoms of nitrogen narcosis, which one(s) do you experience?

Below is a list from DAN:

• intoxicated feeling
• impaired judgment
• difficulty concentrating
• drowsiness
• overconfidence
• euphoria
• fear and insecurity

There’s one more from TDI - visual narrowing. I read that as the opposite of ‘difficulty concentrating’.

Anyways, we can use the list from whatever certifying agency you trained with. I used the one above simply to provide a medically-vetted start point.