Always going forward because I can't find reverse...

[boulderjohn]

True story Pete!
I was lucky that my rig trimmed out really well so we worked on my pathetic propulsion. I had vector issues when trying to frog kick. Hugging the bottom kept me form dropping my knees or bending at the waist or whatever was messing with my attempts.
Only took maybe 10 minutes to start to feel some ability to create some thrust.

I find that keeping students close to the bottom for this is very helpful, for it gives them instant feedback on their body position.

 

[kafkaland]

I would say that it is a rare OW instructor who can do it. When I learned, I was an OW instructor working for a shop, and I had been an instructor for years without even knowing it could be done.I am pretty sure none of the other instructors in the shop could do it. I learned it because I had started tech diving. I later switched shops, and I am quite sure none of those instructors could do it, either. I am pretty sure I know some tech instructors who really can't do it, either.

Wouldn't this be a very useful skill for an instructor to have, even if he or she never teaches it? I'm not an instructor, but I would imagine that having the back kick and helicopter turn down pat would make positioning yourself in the water with respect to your students to teach them skills or help them otherwise so much easier.

 

[rongoodman]

Wouldn't this be a very useful skill for an instructor to have, even if he or she never teaches it? I'm not an instructor, but I would imagine that having the back kick and helicopter turn down pat would make positioning yourself in the water with respect to your students to teach them skills or help them otherwise so much easier.

TSandM used to talk about facing her students and back kicking along so she could keep an eye on them.

 

[boulderjohn]

Wouldn't this be a very useful skill for an instructor to have, even if he or she never teaches it? I'm not an instructor, but I would imagine that having the back kick and helicopter turn down pat would make positioning yourself in the water with respect to your students to teach them skills or help them otherwise so much easier.

It is very valuable. It is, in fact, to some degree how I learned it. Once I had the basics, I used it regularly in my instruction, thereby getting the practice I needed to get the hang of it.

 

[KevinNM]

Wouldn't this be a very useful skill for an instructor to have, even if he or she never teaches it? I'm not an instructor, but I would imagine that having the back kick and helicopter turn down pat would make positioning yourself in the water with respect to your students to teach them skills or help them otherwise so much easier.

Yes. A couple of GUE instructors have told me they "back kick for a living". They are also are very good at positioning themselves where they can see you screw up and intervene if needed without getting in the way of the student.

 

[Schwob]

.... Oh and just a point in general, the back kick uses the sides of the fin for the thrust, if you don't have rigid, wide-ish sided fins you will have to get creative.

So, could it be it's only 90% me and it might be 10% "it's actually harder with seawing novas"?

 

[RainPilot]

So, could it be it's only 90% me and it might be 10% "it's actually harder with seawing novas"?

I do believe it can be done in any fin by someone who is skilled enough. There's your 90%.

I also believe some fins make it WAAAAY harder than it needs to be. There's your 10%.


If I could back kick in my Force Fins I would never wear anything else. Unfortunately no matter how many videos I watch or hours I spend in the pool I can't for the life of me get it to work.

There's my 90% right there...

 

[The Chairman]

Only took maybe 10 minutes to start to feel some ability to create some thrust.

I love it when a plan just comes together!

 

[boulderjohn]

do believe it can be done in any fin by someone who is skilled enough. There's your 90%.

I also believe some fins make it WAAAAY harder than it needs to be. There's your 10%

I mentioned that I practiced my back kicking while instructing OW pool sessions. I would approach students to do skills and then back up get into position again. I would back up in font of students as they moved forward. I used a set of blade fins from the shop's rental inventory, the same inventory we used to out for the students, and I got very used to it. Then the shop got all new rental inventory, and I had to use different find. These were much softer than the ones I used before. I could still back kick, but it took me twice as many strokes to get where I wanted to go as it did before.

 

[MichaelMc]

If I could back kick in my Force Fins I would never wear anything else. Unfortunately no matter how many videos I watch or hours I spend in the pool I can't for the life of me get it to work.

I’ve managed to go in reverse very quickly in Pros, but I’ve also managed to go nowhere. @DevonDiver put some videos up on his Facebook page of reverse kick in ForceFin Pro's, ’Just playing around in the XDeep NX Project’. Not sure if I am using his same technique. It might be worth a look. It looks like the outside split tail folds over on the forward stroke and provides the 'sidewall' needed. My helicopter turn seems the same as his, basically the 'inside' foot kicks across your butt, and the other does not much at all, from what I see.