Al Hornsby Resigns

[Dive Right In Scuba]

This LDS owner is probaly too busy to notice. Post #180. Fine fellow.


http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/un...nse-unified-dive-industry-18.html#post4799398

So busy that he started that 28 page useless thread...oppps, I mean that Dive Shop of the Future....lol

I will say he does have some radical ideas though...and some good points, every once in awhile. But I know nobody that is paying him as much attention as he thinks....not manufacturers, not big online guys, not other retailers....

 

[Scott L]

So busy that he started that 28 page useless thread...oppps, I mean that Dive Shop of the Future....lol

I will say he does have some radical ideas though...and some good points, every once in awhile. But I know nobody that is paying him as much attention as he thinks....not manufacturers, not big online guys, not other retailers....

Yeah, you are probaly right. No one paid much attention to Bill Gates in his garage either. In all seriousness, it was refreshing to read...Let's check on him in 3-5 years. Your thread back...

 

[Thalassamania]

Mike,

Al was not the problem. He was not the root of the problem. His departure has solved NOTHING. It might have even masked the problem. Time will tell.

Al's not the root problem, but his presence was symptomatic of many of the problems and issues. His resignation, in and of itself, solves nothing and I agree that it may well be smoke and mirrors to further mask the real problems. It's so so good to have you join me on the cynical side of the street.

 

[offthewall1]

So busy that he started that 28 page useless thread...oppps, I mean that Dive Shop of the Future....lol

I will say he does have some radical ideas though...and some good points, every once in awhile. But I know nobody that is paying him as much attention as he thinks....not manufacturers, not big online guys, not other retailers....

Lets See...

Noone is paying attention to me?

You apparently are...

The Federal Trade Commission is investigating... the State of Maryland has outlawed MARP pricing, AL Hornsby has resigned, Tom Ingram is writing letters, Net Doc has personally written to me " Excellent Thread," the other shops in my area have all lowered their pricing to compete, the manufacturers are paying me visits (some from as far as Italy,) my threads are often some of the most hit on and commented on - on this board, but noone is paying attention...

While I do get a significant amount of attention - I don't want it and I'm not here for it. I have never asked the industry for anything. I give gear away free at my own expense - not by asking reps for freebies. The reality is that I want a healthy prosperous industry - as that will benefit all of us. From the top to the bottom.

I want the shops in my area to compete - as it will make them all better. For those that don't want to compete, yes, they will go away... leaving only those who have a true passion for the sport.

The greedy overpriced shops - selling gear from the overpriced - price fixing manufactuers will go away... leaving a sleek, well priced competition that will turn the tides on the internet sellers and leave the prosperous LDS of the future in place.

This is a personal sport. As someone pointed out in another thread - what keeps them in it is the comradery. The group trips, the evening after the dive... meeting up at the shop or local dive spots with friends they've met through the shop. The shop is a hub for local diviing... and without local diving, the sport will die for all but a few.

We have to make divers feel good about going to the LDS... not make them dread it... knowing they'll be ripped off. We have to make the LDS competitive so it can exist... and the best way to do that is to stop the idea that the only time an LDS can get a competitive price from a manufacturer is to buy in bulk - upfront at DEMA. That is ludicris. It puts small businesses in a hole from the get-go... which they try to recover from all year.

Listen, this problem is not hard to solve. If someone will nominate me for DEMA to replace Al, I'll consider doing it... but the reality is, the big guys at DEMA don't want to change. They want your money... and damn be the sport.

 

[cerich]

hmmm, strangely enough I am disappointed Al has taken that direction.

Allow me to explain. While certainly there has been some concern (shared by me) that indeed PADI had invested much (multi memberships) to "control" DEMA and certainly it appeared that way after term limits were abolished and Al got elected again to the BOD and immediately made President (thus the term President for Life) the situation was NEVER really addressed.

What do I mean by that? Well, PADI is the market leader among certification agencies, so much so that it is my view that PADI should have a PERMANENT SEAT on the DEMA BOD. That seat should be in addition to the normal amount of seats, in other words by them being there other certification agencies still get the opportunity to be on the board. In addition make it so the BOD must cancel the permanent seat upon PADI's market share dropping below some set number (say 60%). In fact for every category of DEMA membership make a PERMANENT seat for any company that has 60% or higher market share in the industry in their category. This ensures that DEMA and the industry benefits from having the most successful on the team. It also leaves room for the rest of the industry. make it so these Permanent seat holder companies can only hold the President of DEMA position by unanimous vote of the BOD, remember that will now include another stake holder(competitor) from that segment now, so it is no longer automatic)

So now in a "baby with the bathwater" move we kneejerk and alienate PADI...smooth move and stupid.

Dear DEMA BOD, GET OVER YOURSELF, this isn't an attack on you, as individuals or the companies you work for. It is a plea for a different attitude and approach.

Anyway, who's on the board isn't so important as what the DEMA BOD and organization plans to do different, because what is happening isn't working.
__________________

 

[HowardE]

Who do YOU think is the root problem? Me?

Short answer... Yes.

 

[cerich]

Short answer... Yes.

actually Howard I blame Pete's current staff.....

 

[Dive Right In Scuba]

So now in a "baby with the bathwater" move we kneejerk and alienate PADI...smooth move and stupid.

Dear DEMA BOD, GET OVER YOURSELF, this isn't an attack on you, as individuals or the companies you work for. It is a plea for a different attitude and approach.

Anyway, who's on the board isn't so important as what the DEMA BOD and organization plans to do different, because what is happening isn't working.
__________________

I agree 100%. AL should not have stepped down, but I can see where he thought he was being attacked for doing a bad job. With all the threads going on, all any of them(BOD) would think is that it was a personal attack. Should they have taken it that way? NO....but I can see how they did.

Pete made mention to a Mob in one of the threads....thats exactly what happened, with Al running from town before the mob reached him......not that it was ever coming for him.

Off the Wall, I do like your threads, and think you are very knowledgeable and doing some great things. My post was tongue in cheek...at the same time, I do NOT agree with some of your stances.....BUT I do agree that disagreeing is great, and that you are doing some great things. Getting rid of MARP is one of them, getting rid of MAP is not

And no, I do not pay you the attention you think Someone brought you into this thread, and I commented. Manufacturers ask their dealers all the time what they are doing, and how they are doing it. They like to get different perspectives....the difference is you don't see any of us braggin about it....they do the same to all of us brotha

 

[Leadking]

I don't think Al's resignation solves the problem. Al was being used as a focal point for the industry's frustration.

 

[offthewall1]

For the record, I have never pointed a finger at Al or PADI. I don't know Al or for that matter anyone of significant importance at PADI.

While PADI stumbles and bumbles around trying to retain market share against growing upstarts such as SDI, SSI and a few others, their place in the industry, other than losing some market share will likely not change anytime soon.

While training agencies have dumbed down the requirements to receive a certification and in some ways hurt the sport because of it - they are one of the smaller problems within the sport as a whole.

I say that because most dive shops are still trying to teach a well thought out - respectable program.. often even beyond the standards. Where PADI and the others have hurt the industry is by affiliating with shops who do wham bam thank you mam classes... inherently dangerous classes and classes with no intention of serving the customer beyond taking their money for open water.

Independent Instructors also hurt the sport as they degrade the historic base of the industry - the LDS.

Here are the answers to fixing the Industry... from all fronts:
1. Require all Instructors who are within an RSTC agency to be shop affiliated. No more independent Instructors.
2. Bring minimum standards back to certifying to the recreational limit of 130 ft for open water and require those standards be met. Damn the lawyers and Insurance industry and the agency leaders who adopted 60ft for the sake of saving money on one end while making it on the other.
3. Manufacturers must eliminate MARP and MAP pricing. MARP because it is outright illegal price fixing and MAP because it allows the industry to advertise great prices - which in turn will lure more divers to the sport. It will make and allow dive shops to compete on price.
4. Along with the previous, manufacturers must be willing to put in the extra effort required to pack and ship items to all of their dealers at the same prices they sell it to the wholesalers for. Without this, the whole enchilada falls apart.
5. *Retailers must offer quality instruction and competitive pricing. If you price gouge - you deserve to be shut down. Perhaps even by the industry itself. Those caught inflating prices could be shut down either by the training agency pulling their affiliation - or better yet by the manufacturers who cut them off.

*This one needs some clarification. - A new meaning for MARP. Instead of "Minimum Allowed Retail Price" - It should be a Maximum Allowed Retail Price from Manufacturers. There are stores in my area that for years were selling fins with an MSRP of $90 for $125. The advent of the internet brought the same fins online for $69. The LDS started to struggle to sell their fins because they're poorly managed. For god sakes, they were already over the MSRP by $35 and telling people they shouldn't buy online. This was happening all across the country - leading to a lot of pissed off disenchanted scuba divers. So now, the manufacturer will sell to dealers who agree not to sell above the MARP... of $90.00 and allow competition below this price point to fall where it may.

6. Another key to this is the elimination of tiered pricing discounts based on buying volume to two basic levels - and having those levels not so far apart. Given the above fin example... if the fin wholesales in volume of say 100 pair or more to wholesalers for $30.00 a pair... then it should be available to all dealers for $35 a pair. The LDS then can effectively compete. This is another crucial point the manufacturers must adopt. $5 volume buying discount per piece maximum.
The big online sellers won't like it - but then they can shut down to if they want to!

Once we fix the wholesale pricing to the dealer network... readjust the training back to a recreational limit level and require Instructors to be shop affiliated - the industry will begin to fix itself...

I have more - but that is enough for now. Go ahead and pick it apart...