TwoTanks:
I guess if you hose config is sloppy (as mine was once) then this might be a problem. Also your corugated hose will have to be longer so that you can look to the right w/ the air 2 in your mouth. Bungeed backups are the way to go.
Air 2, dangerous octopus??
- Thread starter Jazz
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I guess if you hose config is sloppy (as mine was once) then this might be a problem. Also your corugated hose will have to be longer so that you can look to the right w/ the air 2 in your mouth. Bungeed backups are the way to go.
Don Burke
Contributor
I learned to dive using an AIR2 since the LDS was a Scubapro dealer. There are some disadvantages, although I would not use the term "dangerous" for non-overhead diving.Jazz:
With a little practice, you can do all of those things.
I now use a bungeed second that gives me all of the advantages with none of the disadvantages.
For PSD work I do not like Bungeed Back-ups. Having something tied around your neck is not a good idea venturing into a hazardous unknown.WaterDawg:
Gary D.
Boogie711
Guest
Having a breakaway connection tied around your neck sure as heck beats not having an alternate air source available. Which is what you'd have if your BC starts auto-inflating.
My first set up was an AirII... until I had a reg failure. Not being able to turn fully right broke me of ever wanting to dive with one. I have two I would like to get rid of!
That being said, I don't feel that they are dangerous. There are instances of mutilple failures (s per Boogie) but those are incredibly rare! One failure ends most dives for me.
That being said, I don't feel that they are dangerous. There are instances of mutilple failures (s per Boogie) but those are incredibly rare! One failure ends most dives for me.
Why would you hang something around your neck when there is a strong chance you will have to squeeze into a tight area?Boogie711:
Remember, this is a PSD forum not recreational forum. For playing it's fine. For PSD it spells trouble.
Gary D.
RichLockyer
Guest
It doesn't hang down in front of your chest... it's up tight... tight enough so that the bungee can be placed behind your head to assist in holding the reg in place should you have issues with consciousness.Gary D.:
If I'm squeezing into an area that is too tight for a bungeed backup reg, then it's going to be too tight for my chest, and certainly too tight for an oversized BC inflator/Air-II.
Boogie711
Guest
^^^ What Rich said.
So far, no one has been able to point out for me how an Air2 is in any way superior to a bungee'd backup reg around your neck. However, I have pointed out several deficiencies which no one has been able to discount.
I still maintain that yes indeed, the Air2 is dangerous - at least more dangerous than it's easily found alternative, the bungee'd backup reg.
So far, no one has been able to point out for me how an Air2 is in any way superior to a bungee'd backup reg around your neck. However, I have pointed out several deficiencies which no one has been able to discount.
I still maintain that yes indeed, the Air2 is dangerous - at least more dangerous than it's easily found alternative, the bungee'd backup reg.
Boogie, Rich, and others....
I believe that Gary knows more about this type of diving than most of us. Like Pete says, most of us live in a world where if we have one equipment failure the dive is over, we do our deco/safety stops and we fix the actual equipment issue on the surface. Public safety divers often have to go into places that recreational divers would say "forget about it!" If they are going after a diver, odds say that the body would still be a live person if there wasn't a certain danger involved in the area.
To me it is similar to the fact that in commercial and PSD diving, full face masks and comms gear are the rule rather than the exception. Many of the recreational types see as a PITA if we need to share air and something that consumes more gas.
Folks, the gear is different here. I didn't see Gary saying that the AirII was a great idea, either. He just is concerned about having something around his neck for
a) a potential panicking victim to grab hold of
and
b)potentially get caught in something like a car window or an antenna or other object.
Maybe (I am not sure, he sees it better to have a backup tucked in near the chest area where it doesn't have the potential to pull on a neck. Gary seems to be the expert here at diving for police and fire departments. The rules are a little different than the recreational diving or even commercial diving worlds. It is not for us to tell PS divers that they are doing anything wrong , unless we have been involved with that world.
I believe that Gary knows more about this type of diving than most of us. Like Pete says, most of us live in a world where if we have one equipment failure the dive is over, we do our deco/safety stops and we fix the actual equipment issue on the surface. Public safety divers often have to go into places that recreational divers would say "forget about it!" If they are going after a diver, odds say that the body would still be a live person if there wasn't a certain danger involved in the area.
To me it is similar to the fact that in commercial and PSD diving, full face masks and comms gear are the rule rather than the exception. Many of the recreational types see as a PITA if we need to share air and something that consumes more gas.
Folks, the gear is different here. I didn't see Gary saying that the AirII was a great idea, either. He just is concerned about having something around his neck for
a) a potential panicking victim to grab hold of
and
b)potentially get caught in something like a car window or an antenna or other object.
Maybe (I am not sure, he sees it better to have a backup tucked in near the chest area where it doesn't have the potential to pull on a neck. Gary seems to be the expert here at diving for police and fire departments. The rules are a little different than the recreational diving or even commercial diving worlds. It is not for us to tell PS divers that they are doing anything wrong , unless we have been involved with that world.
diverbrian:
Thanks for the help "DB" but I'm not an expert. That is a way overused word. There is always more to learn.
I don't like the AIRII for PSD work. My wife has one and it works great for her but she is a sport diver. I have a full reg on my BC but it can be disconnected from the BC and still work.
I got bit by the neck reg over twenty years ago and IT WILL NOT HAPPEN AGAIN. Prior to that I thought it was a good idea.
I was at an angle squeezing into the right side front window of a car to grab a victim. I was able to get my head in and reach the victim but in the process of pulling the reg broke free and got caught between the seat and door handles. It was wegged so tight I left the gear and did a 70' free assent.
We freed it when they pried the door open at the surface. The housing on the "Conshelf" was dented so bad it couldn't be repaired.
Besides I use a FF now so the neck idea doesn't work well. We also have a couple on the team that don't know what a neck is, they don't have one.
Those having trouble looking right with the AIRII, just don't look to the right. If you have to just remove it, look right and replace it. If you have resorted to using it you better be headed up so what's the big deal for a small problem.
Gary D.
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