AED and O2

[lamont]

Renee your point is well taken--thanks....you are right about what DAN says in regards to the O2 around an ignition source....that is one of the reasons I wrote this post. Happy diving to you!!

Is an AED a potential ignition source? It has to be hooked up to someone's chest and detecting fibrillation in order for it to shock, and that shock will travel through the available conductor (the body) and I don't see how you're going to get O2 + fuel + spark occuring without misuse and probably malfunction simultaneously occuring...

 

[Firefyter]

Is an AED a potential ignition source? It has to be hooked up to someone's chest and detecting fibrillation in order for it to shock, and that shock will travel through the available conductor (the body) and I don't see how you're going to get O2 + fuel + spark occuring without misuse and probably malfunction simultaneously occuring...

Lamont, you're right, it has to detect V-fib or v-tach before it will allow a shock. This is gonna be a CYA type of thing for DAN as well as laypersons using this equipment.

 

[gjmmotors]

Every time I have shocked someone we remove the BVM from the patients face. If I read the original question correctly it said something about an oronasal mask. In my opinion since you have to physically hold the mask on the patient you might as well take it off.

BTW:
On page 3.43 of the PADI EFR Instructor manual it says:
Do not use an AED around any flamable substance, or oxygen.

- g mount

I have a question for you PSD whom have delt with this type of situation..... I will soon be finishing my DAN Diving Emergency Specialist (DES) rating,,,,which among many preq. courses you must have DAN O2 and DAN Adv. O2 plus AED certf. just to mention a few. **My question is when you have been adm. CPR and O2 via an oronasal mask to a patient and then an AED unit comes available,,,,,,do you need to remove the mask/O2 from the patient to adm. the AED shock to avoid explosion-fire,,,,,or is this not a threat? I feel I know the answer,,,,that being it poses no great danger,,in that it is done in ERs daily,,,,but I still want to cover myself just in case the "perfect world" setting with all the tools ever happens.

 

[Wildcard]

AEDs are not a potential ignition source. There is no spark or arcing.

 

[lamont]

Lamont, you're right, it has to detect V-fib or v-tach before it will allow a shock. This is gonna be a CYA type of thing for DAN as well as laypersons using this equipment.

That's the thing. If it isn't an ignition source then you're not going to cause any harm. That means you'll never need to defend this in a courtroom, so why worry about what was stated in DAN traning with legal precision.

I don't know -- I think I'm explaining myself badly on this point -- it just seems like common sense is being sacrificed for terror of a litigious society.

Plus, I was never trained to turn off O2 when administering a shock. If I fail to do that, how would I have been violating the standards of my training? Could I have been reasonably be expected to consider that in the heat of the moment as I'm trying to execute the "early defibrillation" part of my training to the best of my abilities?

It just seems like arguing about angels dancing on the head of a pin... As bad as some of the DIR gear config arguments...

 

[DeepSeaDan]

AEDs are not a potential ignition source. There is no spark or arcing.

...if the pads are placed improperly ( read: too close together ) or the chest is wet & the current follows the path of least resistance through the fluid. If all is done correctly, the possibility of arcing current is extremely remote.

As someone stated earlier, the v.s.a. patient requires manual ventillation with either a bvm w/ O2, or a pillow mask / barrier mask with or without O2 supplementation. We teach/ practice removal of the ventillation apparatus as part of the "stand clear" command of the AED protocol.

One more point - projectile vomiting is a possible consequence of the defib. application - better to have the face clear of any ventillatory apparatus to prevent potential fouling of the device with vomitus &/or airway obstruction complications .

Regards,
D.S.D. / F.M.D. / D.F.D.

 

[Wildcard]

I have defibed, cardioverted and paced hundredes of times and have never seen the pads arc. It's almost impossable to make paddles arc. Ive even tried to make paddles arc with nitro paste inbetween them, no go. This falls into the cell phones at the gas pump storys catagory, pure BS. Also I don't ever rember anyone vomiting from defib, but I guess it could happen.

The point here is not weather or not to remove the mask, you sort of have to to clear, the point is that your not going to set someone on fire or shock your self.

 

[DeepSeaDan]

C'mon W.C - you know that in our business ALL things are possible... ( hence the ol' saying..."I shoulda booked off!!" )

Check it out.

http://www.mdsr.ecri.org/asp/dynadoc.asp?id=88&nbr=409220&search_txt=

Bestest,
D.S.D.

 

[Wildcard]

If you notice, that report is 10 years old and refers to manual defibs not AEDs with quick patches which are so easy to use even firefighters can use them. Just poking. Seriously, they won't arc unless your doing something majorly wrong. The only case Im aware of involved a shock over nitro paste. Thats why I was trying to do it and it wouldn't work.

 

[DeepSeaDan]

If you notice, that report is 10 years old and refers to manual defibs not AEDs with quick patches which are so easy to use even firefighters can use them. Just poking. Seriously, they won't arc unless your doing something majorly wrong. The only case Im aware of involved a shock over nitro paste. Thats why I was trying to do it and it wouldn't work.

C'mon, you know F.F's only use "Quick Patches" to mend their bunker gear! We can then get dressed & run into the fire to drag out those silly cops & medics who want to be F.F.'s!

Pokeback!

Hey, nice shootin' witch ya...now go out & save someone!

F.M.D.