Advice

[eelnoraa]

TSandM, I found the adaptability of bp/w is almost true, but doesn't always work out in reality. Many bp/w divers I saw, they use SS plate for single wing, but AL for double, so more like another plate and another wing.

Have that said, I do agree starting with bp/w single setup, get used to it make the transistion to double much easier, even if you have to change plate and wing later

 

[g1138]

Just for the OP's sake. Bp/w stands for Backplate/Wing, and will be your most logical/economic choice if you intend to go into cave diving.

Bp/W's are made up of several components that together creat a buoyancy compensator.
You have your
- Backplate
made of Stainless Steel (SS), Aluminum (Al), or a synthetic material. It can be weighted to take ditchable weight off your weightbelt.
SS is usually 6lbs, Al 2lbs, synthetic 0ish-1lbs

- Wing
There are doubles and single dedicated wings. You should not aim to get wing that can "do" both. Too big a wing and it can cause stability and air dumping issues when using single tanks. Too small and it can cause problems with reaching your dump valve when diving doubles.
Doubles and singles require different lift characteristics, so you're looking at buying 2 different wings anyhow.

- Harness
There are the simplest single piece hogarthian harnesses and then there's the more complicated multiple piece harnesses that have quick releases.

- STA + cambands(tank straps)
STA's are single tank adapters that can take cambands. When diving doubles you won't be needing these as doubles bolt directly to your plate.
Recently some manufacturers are making wings that don't require STA's to stabilize tanks onto your Bp. In this case all you need then are the cambands.

TSandM, I found the adaptability of bp/w is almost true, but doesn't always work out in reality. Many bp/w divers I saw, they use SS plate for single wing, but AL for double, so more like another plate and another wing.

Have that said, I do agree starting with bp/w single setup, get used to it make the transistion to double much easier, even if you have to change plate and wing later

Grab an Al plate with a STA+6lb weighted insert and you've solved that problem.
Halcyon and Oxycheq make such an STA.
DSS (Deep Sea Supply) also makes bolt on weighted plates which has the same effect, except you don't have to futz around with an STA.

 

[-hh]

Im looking for a good BCD that will last and works well for traveling, warm water, cold water, cave diving. I guess Im asking if there is a one size fits all BCD, or should I plan to get multiple ones? Right now I am doing warm water but and itching to get into the other areas.

Given that you've just joined and only have a handful of dives, my primary recommendation would be to consider focusing your requirements on what you already know you enjoy (ie, warmwater) and to "try it first" .. ie, coldwater diving .. before you really invest too much time/attention into how to address equipping for it.

"Begin as you mean to go on . . . "

If cave is your eventual goal, you will be more efficient in your gear purchases, if you buy something now that won't be difficult to adapt to cave diving later...

This is a good point, but in balance we also have to recognize that it is very common for new divers to be interested in "ALL" aspects of diving, even though only a small fraction of them ever really take up a speciality such as cave...and that's even after we ignore the unfortunate statistics that the initial drop-out rate is bleedingly high.

As such, I'd be more inclined to offer advice based on the assumption that figuratively "75%" of the time, their diving environment is going to be (for better or worse) the stereotype of warmwater resort vacation diving, with a single AL80 tank and a 3mm suit or less...no drysuits, no doubles, no caves.

With that in your sentense, I would say don't worry about buying multiple items. The cost of doing cave diving safely: training, equipment, gas ... By the time you get there, the cost of your first BCD is the least of your worry...

Good observation. And while I might be called a curmugeon or cynic (or anti-business establishment) for saying it, my personal opinion is that a novice diver needs to have a good 100+ dives under his belt before they should even start to think about going into caves and similar overhead environments. And at the rate of dives done by the typical diver today, that means the the starting line is usually an easy 3-5 years down the road...asuming that they don't get distracted by other UW interests, such as UW photo - - that's an endeavor that if you let it, can burn just as big of a hole in your wallet too.

You're going to hear a lot of "Get a BP/W" around here so you might as well get used it.

Seriously though, wth a BP/W you can do any type of diving and you'll never have to upgrade to something better because IMO there is nothing better.

Unfortunately, it is true that that's a commonly heard claim. However, there's no such thing as a piece of gear that doesn't have a trade-off somewhere. The key question is in recognizing what its particular trade-off is, and if it is significant factor to your individual diving needs & priorities.


-hh

 

[eelnoraa]

Grab an Al plate with a STA+6lb weighted insert and you've solved that problem.
Halcyon and Oxycheq make such an STA.
DSS (Deep Sea Supply) also makes bolt on weighted plates which has the same effect, except you don't have to futz around with an STA.

Not so fast yet, these aren't necessary optimal solution in Monterey water. This is of course going to be location dependent. A very common setup I see is like this:
single tank: SS plate, weighted STA, 8-10lb belt. If you switch SS to AL, your belt will be come 12-14lb, not bad tho.
double: AL plate, 4-6lb v-weight at the tail of the double, the rest on belt. People do it for trim purpose.

You can definitely made do with one plate, but like I said, if you are into cave diving, buying a 2nd plate with different weight isn't going to affect the over cost at all, so might as well have the optimal plate for particular situation.

 

[TSandM]

I would certainly agree that the majority of divers will never dive caves. However, cave country in North Florida is a very doable drive from Atlanta (as I know, having done it) which might make it a bit more likely that the OP will get there.

And I would also agree that the majority of people who get as far as technical or cave diving are going to end up owning more than one plate, more than one wing, a plethora of regulators, a stable of tanks, and a miscellaneous assortment of lights. But a backplate with a harness is a backplate with a harness; if you have two plates that are set up with the same placement of D-rings, switching from one to another is essentially unnoticeable. That is not the case when you are switching from a jacket BC to a plate and harness -- you have to learn how to adjust the harness, and how to get easily in and out of it, and where the dump valve is, and so on.

There are very few downsides to starting with a plate and wing. Yes, it's a good idea to have someone who knows the gear help you adjust it correctly -- and the OP has options there, right here on ScubaBoard. Yes, you have to figure out what to do about weights and storage. But those are manageable issues and there is a lot of information on how to solve them, right here on the board. I really don't see any reason not to advise someone who has already articulated a interest in cave diving, and who lives within practical reach of caves, to start with gear he will be able to use for that purpose and which is perfectly good (if not BETTER ) gear for any other diving he may do in the meantime.

 

[FSWorld]

Thanks for the replies guys. I guess i should have clarified a few things too. For one I have only been certified a little over a year and have been on at least one diving trip a month, if not two since. I just recently got my rescue diver cert too and as soon as I get my equipment I want to start using Nit. Part of the reason for wanting my own equipment (aside from the more comfortable I get under water the more I worry about the rental equipment (especially in Central America)) is that I want to be able to have more options for diving such as lakes and queries. As someone else said the springs in FL are only 3-4 hours away, and on top of that I am a pilot for an airline here in Atlanta so I can be to a lot of diving locations in under 4 hours.

For the other diving, Ive had salt water aquariums all of my life and while the warm water diving is impressive I want a bigger challenge. Cave exploration is something I enjoy on land so it seems natural that I would enjoy it under water but who knows. Again, caves and caverns are close to where I live too. For the cold weather I honestly don't know that I will enjoy it, however I want to dive in Antarctica on a trip there in a few years so thats my reasoning for that. I know the gear is very expensive and it might be stupid but its already a very expensive once in a life time trip so that is something I would like to add to it.

On a side note Im also big into road biking and when I was getting into it I started cheap thinking I would upgrade if I liked it. Well I liked it, I had a lot of issues with the "cheap" stuff, and now I have several thousand dollars in "cheap" stuff that Im trying to give away. I don't want to repeat it!

 

[-hh]

Not so fast yet, these aren't necessary optimal solution in Monterey water. This is of course going to be location dependent. A very common setup I see is like this:
single tank: SS plate, weighted STA, 8-10lb belt. If you switch SS to AL, your belt will be come 12-14lb, not bad tho...

There's always more factors to consider. For example, a system that's employing a weighted STA might more readily invoke an "Every Dive Trip" tax from airline baggage weight limits & fees. For example, Singapore Air's excess baggage fee on some routes is US$20/kg (ouch).

I would certainly agree that the majority of divers will never dive caves....

There are very few downsides to starting with a plate and wing.

Yet there nevertheless are downsides.

For any gear decision, it comes down to a Risk:Benefit determinination.

For example, if one isn't diving with multiple tanks, then the benefit of a wing isn't as high. Similarly, the physics of any buoyancy location will inherently affect different risk factors: jacket squeeze is one, and wing "faceplant" on post-dive surface floats is another (which can't universally be neutralized through countermeaures of steel tanks or weighted STAs). Dive environment and other factors come into play too, as all dives don't have the same conditions. For example, the surface float when exiting from the opening of a cave cenote 10ft from the exit is 10 seconds whereas surfacing into 2m waves where the drift dive's chase boat can be a rough 30 minutes before they finally find you. As such, these risk factors aren't homogeneous across all possible dives, nor even all divers (varying risk tolerances, etc), so it is problemmatic to try to make any universal declaration of significance or insignificance: ideally, we want to avoid any risk that has no tangible benefit.

Thanks for the replies guys. I guess i should have clarified a few things too. For one I have only been certified a little over a year and have been on at least one diving trip a month, if not two since. I just recently got my rescue diver cert too and as soon as I get my equipment I want to start using Nit. Part of the reason for wanting my own equipment (aside from the more comfortable I get under water the more I worry about the rental equipment (especially in Central America)) is that I want to be able to have more options for diving such as lakes and queries. As someone else said the springs in FL are only 3-4 hours away, and on top of that I am a pilot for an airline here in Atlanta so I can be to a lot of diving locations in under 4 hours.

So much for airline excess baggage fees as a factor

For the cold weather I honestly don't know that I will enjoy it, however I want to dive in Antarctica on a trip there in a few years so thats my reasoning for that. I know the gear is very expensive and it might be stupid but its already a very expensive once in a life time trip so that is something I would like to add to it.

The definition of "cold" water will vary some by who you're asking, but its reasonably safe to say that by the time the water temp dips under 70F (~20C), the desire for a healthy level of thermal protection will be present for most people. A lot of people get turned off by having to wear a dive hood, and/or heavy suits (constrictiveness), or the idea of one's weightbelt being in the 25-30lb range. Finally, some people simply get turned off by coldwater being "green and murky" with far few colorful critters versus tropical. Similarly, you might find that night diving isn't your thing, due to the tunnel vision of the lights - - which is similar to cave. And some people love wrecks while others hate them. These are all just simple examples of some of the reasons why "try before you buy" isn't a bad idea IMO for new/different dive environments.


-hh

 

[TSandM]

and wing "faceplant" on post-dive surface floats is another​

Sigh. I think there are a LOT of people here diving back-inflate systems who simply don't have this problem. I do not have ANY issues with surface floats in my gear, including the day we surfaced to large swells, chop, and high wind off San Miguel, and did probably 20 minutes of surface swimming in those conditions before the Zodiac got to us.

 

[eelnoraa]

+1. There could be some potential down sides of bp/w, but face plant is definitely not one of them if one use it properly.

Using bp/w to obtain optimal result require a bit of learning curve. Some people are willing to spend effort on it, some don't. I believe if you try it, get over the hurdle, you will love it.

One down side I can think of is when you are on boat dive in a vacation destination, DM/guide will give you a weire look about your BC, possible give you a talk about much about nothing.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

Face plant can be cured quite easily using a BP/W.

First, use a steel tank to offset some of the weight to the back.
Second, don't overweight yourself to the point where you must have a lot of air in your wing just to stay floating. Excessive amounts of air in the wing is a large contributing factor in placing a diver face down because the wing wants to float.
Third, divers must also realize that they will not be able to get buoyed up out of the water high like a jacket is capable of doing. You will sit lower in the water using a BP/W if you want to stay verticle.

Most people who use a BP/W get used to this really fast and that's why the face plant claim to them becomes absurd.