Advice requested re drysuit undergarments

[The Laconic]

For cold dives, I currently use a DUI FLX extreme (i.e. trilaminate) with some two-piece thick fleece DUI undergarment that came with it. I don't think it's quite warm enough, and I don't really like having a two-piece because the top sort of rides up.

So I'd like a one-piece that's suitable for temps down to low 40s or so (let's say worst-case is Lake Michigan in April). And ideally I'd spend around $300, but I'll go up to $500 or so if I'm convinced it's really worth it.

After some research, I've got my eye on the following:

• Whites Thermal Fusion
• Weezle Compact (not warm enough?)
• Weezle Extreme
• Fourth Element Arctic one-piece
• Fourth Element Halo 3D

The Halo looks sweeeet but I'd prefer not to spend that much. Anyone care to share their thoughts that might tip me one way or another?

 

[Dive Right In Scuba 2]

The first question I would ask is what are the plusses and minuses in your mind for each undergarment?

 

[tbone1004]

go to DRiS and try some one first

second, I don't like one piece undergarments because it makes layering a bit more difficult. I have a Polartec heavyweight union suit that I use as a second layer, but will then put a vest on over it because I don't like the bulk on my arms and legs. Personal preference, but since you're close to Mike et al, it's worth driving down there and talking to them in person.

 

[The Laconic]

go to DRiS and try some one first

I was just there. If DRIS carried all five of these, in the store, in my size, then I probably wouldn't be asking.

The first question I would ask is what are the plusses and minuses in your mind for each undergarment?

I have little idea. That's why I'm asking--I want to hear the pro and cons. I do know the prices.

• Whites Thermal Fusion (~$450, looks fine)
• Weezle Compact (~$300, but probably not warm enough)
• Weezle Extreme (~$300, but seems bulky?)
• Fourth Element Arctic one-piece (~$300, looks pretty good)
• Fourth Element Halo 3D (~$600, looks very streamlined, and if not for the price I wouldn't hesitate to order one)

With that written down, I guess I'd lean toward the Arctic. But I'd like to hear pros and cons from someone who's familiar with some or all of them.

 

[tbone1004]

I'd go arctic personally, 4th element makes the best undergarment system out there.

 

[kr2y5]

I have Whites Thermal Fusion, and I am shivering after 40 minutes in our 50F water... then again, maybe there is nothing wrong with Thermal Fusion, and I am just naturally a cold-blooded bastard.

 

[bradells]

I can only comment towards the whites fusion, and I like it.

Waters from 5C and up (I also wear a very light merino wool 2pc undies) I haven't dive colder water (yet). Never felt cold (except for the day my drysuit inflate pumped in 6C water ...)

Last spring my feet would get cold first. So far this winter, I haven't had any of those problems with 1-2hr dives (nothing's cold, and nothing's changed on my end).

Full on slow floods with little heat loss, just a 'hmmm I think my XYZ is damp'.

One dive I did, I was completely soaked (small trickle down my neck). I called the dive after 70min on account for my toes. NOT from the flood. I only noticed it changing back at the car that I was completely soaked.

It can be tossed in the laundry (I use just the dryer mostly - every few days in warm weather, nightly in cold weather, and once in a while a full wash), the only annoying thing I've had with it is having the material move around at the ankles while doning it.

A happy fusion thermal customer.


BRad

 

[TSandM]

The Thermal Fusion is warm and streamlined, but it is a PITA to get into, and the outer seams on mine started coming apart just weeks after I got it. It has no zippered pockets to store anything, and if you put things in the handwarmer area, they can fall out (eg. Car keys). It's great if you are trying to minimize bulk, and I bought it to go under my Fusions, which it does very well.

The Halo is easier to get into, but also isn't well thought out with pockets, because the one pocket is on the outside of the upper arm, where you can't access it until you have the top half of the suit completely off, which is an annoyance if you would like to get into your vehicle quickly. The Halo is easy to get into the suit and is not very bulky, but the shoulder pads can affect your ability to reach your valves, which is only important if you are diving doubles.

I have dived a Weezle Extreme and did not find it bulky, and it was probably comparably warm to the Halo.

My current go to undergarment for very cold water is my Whites MK3, but I'm not even sure if they make it any more. It's VERY bulky, but has great pockets, a butt zipper (which is handy for us ladies if we don't want to SheP) and is easy to get in and out of.

 

[Pullmyfinger]

You mentioned needing something to cover 40 F water temps.

I agree with TS&M about the Whites thermal fusion; it was a hassle to get on. The water temperatures around here get around 12 C during the winter. The Thermal fusion was plenty warm for that.
I sold it and bought a Santi BZ200, which is similar in warmth to the Whites.

I just spent a week diving in water temps around 12 C.
I actually used a Santi summer undergarment for some of the dives, but was feeling some cold after an hour.

The BZ200 was actually kind of hot to me during the same week of diving.

One of my buddies dives the 4th Element Arctics. He said they were pretty warm during the trip.

I think if the water temps were around 5 C, you would need a thicker undergarment than the Whites Thermal Fusion, The Santi BZ200, or the 4th Element Arctics.

I have no experience with any of the other undergarments you mentioned. Everybody around here spends their money on Santi or 4th Element.

Cheers,
Mitch

---------- Post added January 6th, 2015 at 01:08 AM ----------

Lynne........My signature line doesn't seem the same if I post after you/your avatar.
That just occurred to me.

Cheers,
Mitch

 

[Storker]

First, the disclaimer: Different people have different tolerance to cold temperatures.

Now that's out of the way, I think you could get away a bit cheaper, and with more flexibility WRT thermal protection if you look into layering.

I transitioned from a neoprene to a trilam DS last spring, and I got an Aqualung thinsulate one-piece undergarment. I believe it's 200 gsm, but I just can't find it online right now to verify that. It might be their 300 gsm "arctic". Anyway, it cost me about 220€/260$, well in the lower end of your budget. I've used it, with a thin layer of technical wool underwear and, on the colder days this winter, a thick-ish wool terry short sleeve T-shirt underneath, down to 6C/43F (haven't had colder water yet this winter), and I've felt very nice and warm. On my last dive, I had a leaking dryglove, so when we surfaced I was soaking wet up above my elbow, but I still didn't feel any discomfort on the (open) boat ride back to town in sub-freezing conditions, with wind and snow.

As I say ad nauseam, wool is the most fantastic fiber to wear if it's cold(ish) and you're planning on getting damp or wet. In a DS, you will get clammy from your own perspiration, so there's no way to keep perfectly dry. Layering and wool has been the way to dress for outdoors activities in subarctic Europe (AKA Scandinavia) for several decades, and it's not showing any signs of going out of vogue. For very good reasons.

Layering gives you the opportunity to adjust your thermal protection somewhat depending on the conditions, and putting an extra layer or two on your torso gives you a little extra dexterity compared to having the same insulation thickness all over including your arms and legs.