Advice on a BP/Wing Setup, Zeagle Express, or others?

[Togalive]

Well I am a beginner diver (my last cert dive is tommorow!), but from the moment I took a breath underwater I knew I would love scuba. I am going on a trip in less than a month to Bonaire, and I've already opted to buy my gear and pack it, rather than renting. I was going to purchase a Zeagle Brigade, I'm using a jacket style bcd right now, and I am NOT a fan of how cluttered it feels, but then I saw the Zeagle Express, and it really sparked my interest in not only the technical benifits of a BP/Wing, but also the apparent savings when compared to the BCD I was going to buy, a Scubapro Knighthawk. So on that note, I was just looking for a suggestion on a good BP/Wing setup that would be able to perform as well in Bonaire as it will in my home turf (Northern California), that preferably is relatively inexpensive when compared to a Knighthawk. Also, one which is able to eventually be used with two tanks (my end goal) would be great, thats the only thing turning me away a bit from a Zeagle Express, but by no means have I ruled it out!

Just to give you an idea, I have a maximum budget of $1,100 for my BCD, Reg, Octo, Computer, and SPG. This is one of the reasons why I am so interested in the Zeagle Express considering its about $300 cheaper than a Knighthawk. However by no means do I have any desire to buy the cheapest gear out there, I value quality, and im willing to pay for it as long as its within my budget.

(My personal gear is already pretty much taken care of in case you were wondering)

So, just to reiterate, my main question is what BP/Wing setup would you recommend for a beginning diver who can handle steep learning curves if necessary, values quality, and will be diving in varying conditions with an eventual goal of learning to dive with 2 tanks. Also (have to love these last minute throw-in questions hmm?), I have a basic understanding of the differences between a normal back inflate/jacket BC and a BP/Wing, but what other differences are there between operating the two? Will I need some additional parts for a BP/Wing or the Zeagle in order to have it fulfill my needs and be functional?

Thanks!
Toga

 

[herman]

The ET is a little light to handle doubles but otherwise will do nicely as a first and/or travel BC. As for operating differences there really are none other than with a traditional BP that is metal you can drop a little weight off your belt.

Now to bust a common BP/wing myth. There are those who are going to tell you that you the reason to buy a BP/wing is you will only need 1 BC to dive everything and in essence that it true you, can buy a steel plate and a wing capable of use with any tank setup and use it for all occasions. However, this is almost never done, at least by experienced divers. For travel, assuming you care about weight you will want either an aluminum or kydex (plastic) plate or something like the ET rather than the 6lb or so a steel plate weights but on the flip side for cold waters with doubles you will want the steel plate. Then there is the wing, sure you can use a 45-60 lb lift doubles wing for travel with single tanks but you have a huge, heavy floppy drag on your back. A single tank wing in the 18-25 lb is more appropriate for travel/warm water use. If you press those who dive and rave about the BP/wing about their diving you will find they either dive one type/place all the time or own 2 or 3 BP/wings. The reasons are weight, efficiency and the things are a PITA to swap parts around on. If you do some pricing you will find the price of the average BP wing is more than the ET complete is and since you will sooner or later buy 2 BPs and wings if your dives range from cold Cal waters to flying to warm spots, you might as well get the ET as a travel BC now, use it for local single tank diving and plan on later buying another BP for cold, larger/double tank diving. Nothing wrong with a BP/wing setup and they are absolutely the way to go with doubles, just don't be fooled by the one size fits all BS that some are going to have you believe.

As for the ET itself, I own one that I bought as a travel BC and for diving with an old double hose regulator which requires a different setup than a tradional BC or BP will accommodate. It works well for both and I also use it for a lot of single tank warm water diving. The quality and customer service of Zeagle is top notch so from that perspective any Zeagle is a good choice. As an added bonus, the wing can be used on a different BP later is you so choose.

 

[orenbvip]

go for the express tech.

 

[TSandM]

I'd look at the HOG single tank BP/W setup. It's comparatively inexpensive, and seems to be well-made. We are using them for student rigs.

You can also look at buying used. It's going to be very hard to get all the things you have listed for $1100, unless you buy some of it used.

 

[Togalive]

I'm doing some research on the HOG setups you mentioned as we speak!

Mainly I've been working pretty extensively with an individual employee from scubatoys for the past week or so, and he has been able to get me within my price range with some quality new gear, which I appreciate to no end! So that was my main reason for looking at the Express Tech on their website, but then I noticed that the Express Tech, and the Express Tech Deluxe are almost two entirely different setups once all the extra pieces are added, but thats not a bad thing in this case, atleast I think. Am I correct in thinking that by picking up an Express Tech Deluxe it would lessen the initial "Add a D ring here", "Add a clip here" work? I've heard from a few people that a crotch strap is a must to help hold the tank butt end closer to the body with this BC, if so that seems to be atleast one thing Ill have to put on it. Also, I'm claiming some significant ignorance here, but would a 25 lb bladder be enough for diving off the west coast in that cold water (single tank, doubles will come once I'm more experienced, and probably with a different BC)? It will be the coldest diving ill do for the time being. I am 5'7", and I weigh around 140-150, but I usually dont have any air in my BC except when at the surface and trying to rest.

If I were to buy the Express Tech Deluxe, I would probably be getting it with the weight pockets, although I only wear 12 pounds of weight in my belt, and in my OW cert BC (ScubaPro Glide Plus) I had 2x2lbs in the trim pockets, so I dont use much weight. I may also look at the padding option, simply because I dont think it could hurt. Anyone have any other suggestions as far as accessories for this BC? D rings seem to be pretty common, but I cant tell right now how many I'm going to want, nor can I see in the photos how many it already has on it (for the deluxe model).

One more question, with all the clips on it in the Deluxe version, how hard would it be for me to, for example, put a D ring on the shoulder straps or waist straps? It looks like the bands coming out of the clips have been sewn back together, so those might not be removable anymore? I'm thinking I will need at least one on each side of my hips, and one on each shoulder strap as a minimum (I like my D rings!).

Heres the Deluxe version...

Thanks Again!
Toga (The BP/Wing newbie)

P.S: I just noticed the plastic tank clips on the Zeagle website 0_0 Has anyone had any issues with these? I have to admit, anything holding that tank on my back thats plastic concerns me a bit, just as plastic D rings do...

 

[SangP]

Well I am a beginner diver (my last cert dive is tommorow!), but from the moment I took a breath underwater I knew I would love scuba. I am going on a trip in less than a month to Bonaire, and I've already opted to buy my gear and pack it, rather than renting. I was going to purchase a Zeagle Brigade, I'm using a jacket style bcd right now, and I am NOT a fan of how cluttered it feels, but then I saw the Zeagle Express, and it really sparked my interest in not only the technical benifits of a BP/Wing, but also the apparent savings when compared to the BCD I was going to buy, a Scubapro Knighthawk. So on that note, I was just looking for a suggestion on a good BP/Wing setup that would be able to perform as well in Bonaire as it will in my home turf (Northern California), that preferably is relatively inexpensive when compared to a Knighthawk. Also, one which is able to eventually be used with two tanks (my end goal) would be great, thats the only thing turning me away a bit from a Zeagle Express, but by no means have I ruled it out!

Just to give you an idea, I have a maximum budget of $1,100 for my BCD, Reg, Octo, Computer, and SPG. This is one of the reasons why I am so interested in the Zeagle Express considering its about $300 cheaper than a Knighthawk. However by no means do I have any desire to buy the cheapest gear out there, I value quality, and im willing to pay for it as long as its within my budget.

(My personal gear is already pretty much taken care of in case you were wondering)

So, just to reiterate, my main question is what BP/Wing setup would you recommend for a beginning diver who can handle steep learning curves if necessary, values quality, and will be diving in varying conditions with an eventual goal of learning to dive with 2 tanks. Also (have to love these last minute throw-in questions hmm?), I have a basic understanding of the differences between a normal back inflate/jacket BC and a BP/Wing, but what other differences are there between operating the two? Will I need some additional parts for a BP/Wing or the Zeagle in order to have it fulfill my needs and be functional?

Thanks!
Toga

Here's my 2 cents for a decent working, long lasting package.

AL back plate w/ Oxycheq Hog Harness & Oxycheq Mach V wing $375

HOG D1 Cold 1st stage with 2nd stage regulator $265
+
HOG 2nd stage regulator $99
+
HOG SPG 2 inch $55

Total $794... I'm sure you can get this package for less than $750 from Edd, including the hosesand a couple of weight pockets.

I should know I've bought about 2 grand of stuff from him so far !

That leaves at least $300 or more for your cpu.

SangP

 

[Scared Silly]

While I am a big fan of Zeagle gear as I have owned a bunch of it, I do not like their ET system. Mostly because of the way wing attaches to the plate with that particular bladder. Also not a fan of the bungies. Their attachment system is fine for going between a traditional harness and plate but I think if you are going full plate the wing should be a std wing design with a panel in the middle. Also you might do some weighting calculations 24lbs of lift may or may not be enough when diving the cooler waters. A BCD should do two things; float your rig at the surface and compensate for buoyancy changes at depth. So a larger wing (< 35lbs) might be better for cooler waters when you have more weight.

Given that you are in CA you also check out http://www.deepseasupply.com. Tobin frequents the board and is quite helpful as well as makes some nice gear.

 

[DrunkenParrot]

This is what I would do.....

*Dive Right In Scuba
HOG Gear 32lb Wing for Single Cylinder Diving - Dive Right In Scuba - Plainfield, IL

Hog 32lb Single tank Wing 199.00 this is a Great wing!!!

*Dive Gear Express
Backplates & Harnesses by Dive Rite - Dive Gear Express

Dive Rite Aluminum back plate sale 59.00 or Stainless plate 89.00 depending on what you need for weight

Dive Rite Quick Release Deluxe Harness 38.00

Dive Rite 1" crotch strap 8.03

Dive Rite Single tank adapter with cam bands 88.95

Total so far $392.98 with Aluminum or 422.98 with Stainless

Regulator Setup two choices for you.....

* Cave Adventures
Dive Rite RG2500/Octo/2 gauge console package deal w/Free Bag [2500pkg] - $439.00 : Cave Adventurers!, We will NOT be undersold!!!

Dive Rite RG2500 Regulator with Rg2500 Octo with Dual Gage Console. $439.00

Or
*Dive Right In Scuba
HOG Gear D1 Regulator Set - Dive Right In Scuba - Plainfield, IL

Hog D1 Regulator package $249.99

Then Hog Regulator as octo.....99.99

Also a SPG Hogs 1.5" 55.00

You will need hoses. so Regulator high pressure octo hose 20.00 then a high pressure spg hose 20.00 at the lengths that you want.

Total for Hog package ........444.98

Total total
with dive rite regulator set 831.98
or
Hog package..................837.96

So there you have it, that is what I would do. I would go with the dive rite regs since they give you free service parts for the life of the regs if serviced in the 2 years that is required and done by dive rite techs. Hogs are nice if you want to learn your self to service the regs but since you are new then go with the dive rites if you have a LDS. that is what i think. :cool2:
I started as a Jacket style BCD divers and will never go back to that again. It just took one dive with the BP/w setup and i was sold. I dont have experience withe zeagle brand stuff but have heard good things about them. No one carries them around me so i have never seen them in person. If you plan on diving doubles then if you need to just change out the wing to a bigger wing. You will have a very versatile setup.