Advice getting BP+W and long hose+necklace config off in the water

[tank29]

I am returning to diving after a long hiatus and have been reviewing skills in the pool, in addition to taking a refresher course. The one activity that has been problematic is removing my BC in the water.

My gear is a DSS single tank stainless steel backplate and wing, along with a 7 foot hose for my main second stage and a short necklace for the octo.

Trying to get that setup off was a real pain in the backside. I first tried this following the instructors example by flipping it over my head. He did this with a standard vest-style BC. I attempted to follow suit and it didn't go well. As I was carrying lots of my ballast on my back via the backplate, I became extremely positive as soon as I finally got the thing off, so I had to hold on to the BC as my legs went vertical (it seems like nowadays I have floaty feet; I can't recall if that was a problem when I first started). But that was after lots of wrangling with the main 2nd stage and switching to the octo and all sorts of other stuff.

Could the straps be too tight for this maneuver? They are snug, but I never notice them being uncomfortable, in or out of the water. One issue I regularly have is getting the chest webbing snagged on my wrist computer when I put my arms into the BC to suit up, because it's an old Aeris Atmos 2. I have to thread a needle a bit to not snag it on the webbing and twist and turn my wrist a number of times to get my arm clear and into the BC. I was originally thinking maybe that was due to body size changes making the webbing setup out of date, but I recall that I had issues with the computer getting snagged when I originally set up the backplate, so either body size changes is not a factor or there is an issue to be addressed that was present originally and now.

What about the regs? With the necklace on for the backup 2nd stage and the hose only being 20" long, it quickly becomes a problem keeping that around your neck while trying to take off the whole BC. That then begs the question as to which reg I should use when trying this maneuver. What about switching to the octo, taking off the necklace, then unwinding the long hose from around my neck/back/shoulders? I basically got to that point after some trial and error of trying to still use the primary 2nd stage and removing the octo (which of course is then looped around that primary 2nd stage via the necklace). Are there better ways?

I plan to go back to the pool to continue working on this, but I was hoping to get some advice and suggestions for ways to do this efficiently before I do.

Thank you!

 

[rvojr]

I'm interested as well. Also I have issue with getting the webbing into the buckle with gloves on. It wants to fold over and not pass through.

 

[Zef]

I momementarily switch to my octo which is on a bungee necklace...this allows me to get the necklace over my head without out it entangling on the long hose.

Next I switch back to the long hose and let the octo dangle.

Then I unbuckle my waist belt and make sure the buckle is clear from the crotch strap loop.

Then I remove my right arm and slide tank and backplate around my body keeping positive control of my rig with my left arm/hand.

My free right hand then grabs the left shoulder strap and assits me pulling my left arm out and maintains positive control of the rig and can activate my power inflator or dump air as needed.

If I am on the bottom then I put my rig on my bent knee to help keep me from floating up. This allows me to inspect my gear and make it ready to re-don.

If I am floating in the water column, I keep my hands on the shoulder straps and pretty much float horizontally above my rig using it as ballast.

To re-don in mid water, I add air either orally or with my power inflator to ensure the rig is neutral. I then slide my left arm in and either slide the rig around onto my back or roll horizontally to get it on my back. Right arm slides through shoulder strap, sort out the crotch strap and waist strap and buckle. Then recover octo, switch to it to put bungee necklace properlyy in place and then reroute the long hose properly and switch to primary 2nd stage.

Hope that helps.

-Z

 

[happy-diver]

Melt the first four inches of fibres with a heat source

I'm interested as well. Also I have issue with getting the webbing into the buckle with gloves on. It wants to fold over and not pass through.

 

[dlofting]

Sounds like your shoulder straps may be too tight. Try loosening them, they shouldn't be fitting like a packsack.

 

[KenGordon]

I am returning to diving after a long hiatus and have been reviewing skills in the pool, in addition to taking a refresher course. The one activity that has been problematic is removing my BC in the water.

My gear is a DSS single tank stainless steel backplate and wing, along with a 7 foot hose for my main second stage and a short necklace for the octo.

Trying to get that setup off was a real pain in the backside. I first tried this following the instructors example by flipping it over my head. He did this with a standard vest-style BC. I attempted to follow suit and it didn't go well. As I was carrying lots of my ballast on my back via the backplate, I became extremely positive as soon as I finally got the thing off, so I had to hold on to the BC as my legs went vertical (it seems like nowadays I have floaty feet; I can't recall if that was a problem when I first started). But that was after lots of wrangling with the main 2nd stage and switching to the octo and all sorts of other stuff.

Could the straps be too tight for this maneuver? They are snug, but I never notice them being uncomfortable, in or out of the water. One issue I regularly have is getting the chest webbing snagged on my wrist computer when I put my arms into the BC to suit up, because it's an old Aeris Atmos 2. I have to thread a needle a bit to not snag it on the webbing and twist and turn my wrist a number of times to get my arm clear and into the BC. I was originally thinking maybe that was due to body size changes making the webbing setup out of date, but I recall that I had issues with the computer getting snagged when I originally set up the backplate, so either body size changes is not a factor or there is an issue to be addressed that was present originally and now.

What about the regs? With the necklace on for the backup 2nd stage and the hose only being 20" long, it quickly becomes a problem keeping that around your neck while trying to take off the whole BC. That then begs the question as to which reg I should use when trying this maneuver. What about switching to the octo, taking off the necklace, then unwinding the long hose from around my neck/back/shoulders? I basically got to that point after some trial and error of trying to still use the primary 2nd stage and removing the octo (which of course is then looped around that primary 2nd stage via the necklace). Are there better ways?

I plan to go back to the pool to continue working on this, but I was hoping to get some advice and suggestions for ways to do this efficiently before I do.

Thank you!

A long time ago, when we still used cuft, we used to do a thing called ditch and retrieve in the pool. The idea was to improve confidence rather that to have a usable skill. It the wild you’d pop to the surface as soon as you took of the weights. Apparently some agencies still do this, although I am not sure whether they think it is for actual application or just a hard to do skill that requires confidence, competence and patience.

I do however have to get out of kit at the surface, this happens if diving from small boats.

I will first sort out my regs. Get the long hose unwound and the necklace off. Personally I think a very short backup is more trouble than it is worth and use a normal host, but the SB view disagrees. Once I am back on the long hose I usually get rid of my weight belt, that can be a pain due to the crouch strap but on a BCD that is less likely to be a problem and with integrated weights is easy. Once those are handed up I undo the waist and crouch straps and get out of my harnes in the usual way. Again a BCD or breakable harness is easier. Still breathing off the long hose I swing the rig round my right shoulder and make sure it is inflated. Inflating to much earlier makes getting it off hard. Then I pass it up, letting go of the long hose last off all.

Depending on suit buoyancy and distribution of weight it may be possible to leave the weightbelt to last, but there is an obvious risk of sinking, never to be seen again.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

I learned to don and doff a BP/W rig in the water by default because I dive off a kayak quite a bit.
I ditched the 5’ or 7’ hose that wraps around behind the neck and went to a 40” under the arm with a 70 degree swivel on the second stage. I’m also using a 20” bungeed second.
I have to turn my compass on my wrist inwards to be able to slide my arm under the webbing to get out. If you’re doing R&R drills under water you might want to leave the bungee off and use your back up to breathe off of instead of your long hose. The Hog set up really isn’t the most ideal setup to practice rig R&R’s, but with a little practice it’s not too bad.
Being a kayak diver is another reason why I’m in favor of using a weightbelt. It breaks up the weight and make surface R&R’s out in open ocean easier. Having all my weight on the rig would be an absolute nightmare in my situation.

 

[RayfromTX]

I wear my computers on my right arm so I take my left arm out first and that makes it easier to get my right arm out without hanging up.

 

[RayfromTX]

Don and doff is essential for performing the warhammer maneuver and I am not trying to be funny. Don and doff and remove your wetsuit isn't a skill that they have ever taught in OW class as far as I am aware. also essential

 

[tbone1004]

skill should be rather easy.

First step-make sure the shoulder straps are loose. There is no reason for them to be even close to something that resembles "snug". You should be able to make a fist and put your thumb on your chest and your pinky on the straps without any restriction when in the water. THAT loose. There is no benefit of them being tight, only consequences, so keep them loose.

Going feet up and being positive is normal, don't fight it, just work with it. You are using the rig for ballast, so you have to hold on. No avoiding that.

For the regs and long hose. Couple of ways to skin this cat.
Before I start anything else, I swap to the octo, coil the long hose 2-3x and thread the second stage thru the loop like I do on the surface, then swap back to the long hose. This will keep it relatively contained. It's not the ideal hose to use for this skill, but you have to deal with it.
Next step is to pull the suicide strap off of your neck because it will get real uncomfortable once you start trying to throw the rig over your head. I then take the strap, thread it thru the right shoulder d-ring and around the second stage. Again this keeps it relatively in place.
After that, it's undo the straps and go. It's important to keep the rig neutral and not do this skill negative. The backplates are much heavier than a jacket and it doesn't feel particularly good if you drop it on your head trying to get it up and over. I usually try to get the rig slightly positive and breathe on the bottom part of my breath when I'm getting it up and over