Advice for Training and Gear

[JesterDiver]

I'm interested in learning sidemount diving. The appeal is the redundancy of that independent second tank. I do pretty much all of my diving on vacation in tropical waters wearing 3-5mm wetsuits and using the usual resort aluminium 80's. I'm looking for a setup and training that is at it's best in the type of environment I will be diving in and using the type of tanks that will be readily on hand at most tropical dive locations.

I have no interest right now in cave or wreck diving. I do eventually want to get advanced nitrox and deco procedures certified.

I'm thinking of doing my training somewhere like Mexico or Roatan. Can anyone recommend a rig for the specific type of diving I will be doing and a place to train/trainer proficient in that setup?

Thank you for the advice!

 

[TotDoc]

If you are going to train in Mexico, you are likely going to see a lot of stealth / razor setups. Frankly, if you are planning on using AL80s, they are an excellent choice. I have a halcyon sidemount BC I use for cave diving, and it works great with cave pumped steel tanks + stages. When I dive in open water, though, I use a stealth. When it comes to travel, I'd much rather pack my stealth than my halcyon. It's a LOT more compact. You could always wait to buy what you need after finding an instructor and getting their advice, though, since they will also be helping you set up your rig, and they will likely have a preference

 

[tbone1004]

I would probably recommend the Hollis Katana as it is a lot less expensive and just as good for AL80 diving as the Razor. It can also do double duty with steel tanks if you dive at home a lot better than either the Razor or Stealth.

If you want a razor, or as close to one as you can get without going broke for no reason, I have this wing and some of this hardware and it works quite well. I don't personally like it over my Katana because it is two pieces and I find it somewhat annoying, but it does dive very well
DECO - Dive Equipment Company - Sidemount - BCD's

no reason to necessarily take your training in Mexico or Roatan, it may be worth contacting Cave Adventurers and taking a sidemount class with either Edd or Michal Turek in Florida. They will be able to train you using AL80's for that kind of diving with 0 issue and if you buy your rig through them, you'll likely save quite a bit of money. Those DECo rigs are built right up the road from them as well for reference

 

[gearhound]

From the sounds of what you're looking for, you're going to be better served going to Mexico and taking a course from one of the more reputable instructors. You can take an intense course during the day and be relaxing on a beach in the evening. Florida cave country is going to lack some of the "amenities".

If you're a believer of buying once and getting it right the first time, then I would suggest that you buy the Razor. You're planning on going the Tec route in the future, but in a wet suit. The Razor will give you the redundant bladder. It also packs up super nice for travelling. I'm a big fan of Protec in Tulum and Playa, but I think Natalie Gibb at Under the Jungle would be a fantastic instructor for you.

 

[tbone1004]

@gearhound but starting at $700 is a bit ridiculous for what it is. Hardly worth that amount of money. For about $300 you can get the DECo rig, about $400 for the Katana and a bunch of other similar rigs, you just aren't getting much of anything from the Razor to justify the obscene price that they charge for it.

 

[gearhound]

You can get cheap knock offs of anything these days, but there is something to be said for the original. The Razor is a exploration grade, built in the USA rig. It's a rugged rig that's stood the test of time. It's also a rig that the op can grow with, as he progresses into the courses that he wants to take, in the environment that he wants to take them in.
How many Hollis rigs do you need to buy or modify to try and get it right?

 

[tbone1004]

the razor has not been made in the USA for 4 months, they switched to a MX supplier. There is also nothing special about it. Some waterjet cut pieces that are nothing special, and a 3 layer sandwich of laminated cordura that is industry standard. The only unique thing it has going for it is the dual bladder.

What is there to grow into? It is either comfortable and has enough lift, or it doesn't. I don't find the Razor to be comfortable due to the way the wing attaches and wraps around your body with bungee. It's very uncomfortable if you dive anything but al80's.

I do not like Hollis rigs in general, that is a fairly well known fact by anyone who has asked my opinion on sidemount rigs. I utterly hate the design paradigm of the SMS75/100, but it is what it is. The Katana is a completely different beast and is the only sidemount rig that I have ever dove that did not require modifications. I have dove most of them. I literally took it out of the box, and adjusted the harness and it is good to go.

I will yield that I have made 3 modifications to the unit. Two of which were to remove the butt rails and replace with bungee for strapping in a canister light, and only did that because I replaced the crotch strap with a split crotch strap for long DPV use. The split strap is something that would have happened on any rig, and the adjustments to canister light mounting would have followed it. I also added two loops of bungee under the shoulder d-rings because of how I store my second stages *Poseidon Jetstreams*. If I wasn't doing 2+ hour dpv dives, and using Poseidon regulators, then I would have left it stock. My razor harness also has these modifications, as does my Nomad, and they both also has loop bungees on it because I think the continuous bungee puts the tanks too low on the diver and forces you to front mount instead of sidemount. It is a concession that those guys made for whatever reason, and I don't like it, so don't use it.

 

[gearhound]

I'm also not a fan of the Hollis sidemount rigs, having owned a few of them. I want to love them, since they are really easy to get, but their designs are always playing catch up to the originals. Even the Katana is an attempt to cut into the Razor/Stealth market. I've got no issues with that. I'm a consumer, I prefer to pay less rather than more. But quality is also important to me. Including design quality. The Razor was designed properly from the start. There's subtleties to its design that most people can't pick out. Yes, it's made from the same materials, just as a BMW is made from metal like a Lada, but I'm sure we can agree that there is a difference in quality and design.

Back to the the original question from the OP. He's planning on tropical diving, and doing Deco procedures in the future. The Razor fits perfectly for him. Top notch design, easy to pack and travel with, and redundant buoyancy for his tec courses. Training in tropical waters makes sense for him too. I'm not familiar with any of the sidemount instructors in Roatan, but can make recommendations for those in Mexico. The area also offers resorts, beaches and a robust night life if that is what he desires.

 

[tbone1004]

@gearhound to each his own on the gear side. For me the Razor falls flat on its face no matter how you look at it because it beach balls and lifts off of your back when there is any air in it. Nothing can be done to fix that, trust me, I have prototypes trying to fix it, but it can't work without holding onto the wing from the middle instead of the edges. The wing also doesn't have any relief panels in the sides so it inflates from the middle out to the edge which means the air starts in the center and creates a hump. Not streamlined at all.

The Katana is definitely an attempt to cut into that market, but it does it better than the Razor and original Stealth by quite a large margin, and a little bit better than the Stealth 2.0, and significantly cheaper than all three of them.

Redundant buoyancy in the wing is something I continually struggle with. Yeah, it'd be nice to have, but at the same time if you are diving AL80's only, there is no need for it. The tanks float, so they'll help you as they get low, but you should never be in a situation where you are diving in an unbalanced rig with AL80's in a wetsuit. Same reason no one uses dual bladders when diving al80 doubles, it's just not necessary. Carry a liftbag with you so you can hang from the surface for deco and you'll be fine.

regarding location, the only thing that will get you is doing the sidemount xover in the ocean, but personally I think being able to do it in a crystal clear spring without having to worry about weather, boats, etc. is a better option when trying to learn a new rig, that way when you get to the new location you can just dive it and not sacrifice a day, realistically 2 if you want proper instruction, of good diving where you want to.

to each his own, obviously our opinions differ and that is fine, but I think the Razor is a colossal waste of money and its popularity is driven by a brilliant marketing campaign and brainwashing. Just because it is the original, doesn't make it the best, and certainly not worth what they charge for it

 

[CowMan]

Cozumel Marine World is a good choice on the island of Cozumel. Jorge Marin, Jeremiah Eligio or Alex Vino are all Sidemount instructors. My advice on what BCD to buy is to see if your instructor will supply or if you can rent gear for your class. The more Sidemount BCDs you can try the easier it will be to make your choice.