Advanced Open Water SSI vs PADI

[Beowulfe]

PADI AOW does not qualify you to dive deep either. It just means you have done one deep dive. The deep diver in both agencies is the qualifier. The advanced SSI card really means you do not have to carry around 4 different cards in case somebody ever asked.

 

[supergaijin]

If I understand you correctly, you are saying an Advanced card from SSI does not automatically qualify the diver to make a deep dive. My question is how does this differ from the PADI AOW card with which you've compared it? To get a PADI AOW card, a diver has to have made one (1) dive to sixty (60) ft. One dive to 60 feet does not qualify a diver to make deep dives.

With PADI AOW, and deep being a neccessity, it means the guide can legally take the person below 60ft. (Of course acting as a prudent person would).

One can argue "certified vs qualified" but this is not really my intention.

Cheers

 

[JMcD]

Im curious about the use of the term "legally"...

I think I understand what you mean - that according to the agency standards they have qualified to dive deeper than 60 feet. But to Walter's point, 1 dive does not a competent diver make.

There isn't a "legal" requirement - in that the scuba police will take you away if you took a diver below 60 feet. There are many divers who have been active for years with dozens/hundreds of "deep" dives acquired when an OW card was simply a standard (many people on this board can share stories of diving before having any formal "certification" and there have certainly been environments where the AOW card was rarely required or even seen.

If a guide reviews a log book and talks to the diver, is diligent in this and sees demonstrated history and experience of diving that aligns with the conditions he is about to guide someone through, then I think he can demonstrate that he has not been negligent in his actions if an incident ensues. However, if all a guide did was take a look at an AOW card - didn't look at a log that had only 9 dives in it with only 1 "deep" to 80 feet in Cozumel... in the event of an incident I think the negilgence argument would be MUCH stronger...

 

[supergaijin]

Im curious about the use of the term "legally"...

I think I understand what you mean - that according to the agency standards they have qualified to dive deeper than 60 feet. But to Walter's point, 1 dive does not a competent diver make.

I agree totally with this. However it is still a legal standing that the diver in question has experience with an instructor in a deep dive, following industry standards.

Again, PADI slips in with 'act as a prudent person would', which opens up a huge grey area legally. Were the conditions good etc. etc.

However a guide planning a depth deeper than a diver's OW depth range can find themselves in trouble if something goes wrong. Of course with any accident, the guides practices, planned profiles etc. will be carefully scrutinised. If the planned depth in the briefing was say, 20m but the guide's computer profile showed he was guiding at 22m; that to me would be more difficult to defend.

 

[jscott099]

AOW and Advanced Adventure Diver are two different things. AAD looks to be equal to PADI's AOW in that you are sampling 5 different specialties. Not sure if there is an actual course for it. AOW is not a course either but a set of requirements.

Whether that qualifies you to dive deeper or not is always the question. The SSI courses do say dive within your knowledge and training.

I also believe the SSI AOW requirement is that the specialties are all ones that have check out dives. So the computer and nitrox would not count towards it. Not sure if advanced bouyancy has a check out dive.

Beowulf, you are thinking about Master Diver. That requires 4 'diving' specialties and stress and rescue. AOW allows any four specialties, diving or non-diving.

 

[colo_diver]

Our SSI AOW has a "core" group of classes Nitrox, Nav, Deep and Night/Lim Vis. When divers ask what they should take, I point them in that direction it is also the class that we present to the local colleges for their Scuba 201 course (AOW). I also like to ask about what their future plans are? Are tehy thinking Divemaster or higher in the future? If they are tehn the "core" is what they really should do as it will be a solid foundation for the future plans. I also let them know that they can take any 4 classes but what "most" take are the 4 core. They can pick and choose their fun.

 

[MikeMarlow]

I've normally taught Night/Limited Vis, Deep, Nav and Perfect Buoyancy as the "standard" grouping. First off, this really gives a great group of classes to flow together and build on each other. I have also been able to notice a huge improvement in skill as the class progresses. These classes will also help a diver meet most challenges on your average vacation trip. Depending on where I am teaching, I may also add Boat, but that is in addition to the four listed above.
Having worked with both the PADI and SSI systems, I will definitely say that I like the SSI AOW system better. Also, I like how the AOW card shows which specialties were completed for the AOW course. I've had some people ask to have NITROX in the AOW course, but I've never done that, since I've found that most students already have it, so it's normally only one student out of the group that needed it.

Mike

 

[DevonDiver]

I am also an SSI and PADI instructor.

The PADI AOW and SSI AOW are not comparable (regardless of the name). The SSI equivalent to the PADI AOW is the 'Advanced Adventurer' course.

 

[kenbert61]

I am currently taking my SSI OWA course's. I bought the package from my local dive shop.It was my understanding that Deep and Navigation were required. It could have just been my intructor steering me that way, which is okay because I trust he knows what would suit me best. He only let me pick two( Wreck and Nitrox and threw Boat in for free.)
Now of course it was stressed to me again and again, that just because I have an OWA card I shouldn't just jump into a 125 feet wreck dive. To take it slow, dive with more expirienced divers come back and ask me any questions, always dive within your comfort zone ect ect.
So what I guess I am trying to say is make sure you have an instructor that you feel comfortable with, and will have an on going relationship. Then your certifcation agency doesn't matter much.

 

[dhinkle1987]

There are also other courses that do not require dives. Not all SSI instructors will authorize a nitrox card without dives.

Guides, DM, and dive operations should always check to ensure divers are qualified to dive deep dives. Most dive operators that I have run into with check and also observe the divers before totally turning them loose or even let them dive deep. That does not always work thou. Last year while in Fiji, the dive operation took a group and did a checkout dive, they passed, and when they dove the next day with my wife and me, half of them did not know where they were at on their computer after the dive and could not tell the guides what their profile was. They were totally relying on the guides! Glad it was my last day of diving!