Accident & Incident Discussion - Northernone - aka Cameron Donaldson

[rjack321]

The confidence that he actually made it to the surface seems misplaced. He might have - but a flooded scooter will drag you down crazy fast and there's plenty of medical issues that can incapacitate even a younger person

 

[GameChanger]

This ↑
While I acknowledge that there are underwater searches ongoing, I am still not convinced he surfaced. I am not being critical so don't flame me. I am glad the SAR efforts include the underwater teams. This is a huge SAR Op as it involves a lot of possibilities and all need to be addressed.

 

[Dominik_E]

If I am allowed to say, I am not really convinced that any conclusions can be drawn yet. Without the slightest indication what actually happened, to me it is not at all clear if the scenario would have played out with a better outcome had a buddy been there, or any given type of gear available.

 

[lv2dive]

Richard,
I’m not sure the right word is “confidence” - it’s just that given his age and physical condition it doesn’t seem likely he had a medical event at depth. Also, divers have been back to the location of his last dive.

None of the above is proof he made it to the surface, of course, but it’s certainly reason enough to keep searching (not that you were suggesting otherwise). I imagine any tone of confidence is more related to positive thinking than anything else.

The confidence that he actually made it to the surface seems misplaced. He might have - but a flooded scooter will drag you down crazy fast and there's plenty of medical issues that can incapacitate even a younger person

 

[rjack321]

I was responding to the quote in post #7 that "they were positive he made it to the surface", especially since nobody even saw him ascending. I'm not sure LCF ever surfaced either, even though she was last seen ascending. I do understand the hopefulness that being on the surface brings.

 

[Ana]

@Wookie: Should this dive have been performed with a surface support vessel above with a trained crew aboard?

Respect the ocean, or it will hurt you,
markm

I'm not Wookie .... but seems to me that having a vessel with a radio for this dive would've make a huge difference. Even if the person on board only new how to tell time and push the red button on the radio

 

[Wookie]

@Wookie: Should this dive have been performed with a surface support vessel above with a trained crew aboard?

markm

I'm not Wookie .... but seems to me that having a vessel with a radio for this dive would've make a huge difference. Even if the person on board only new how to tell time and push the red button on the radio

I am probably more likely to dive like Kaydee than like Mark or Bob Westfall. I have 6000 dives. I've narrowly escaped death while diving a number of times, been bent a number of times more, and have tried to take a lesson from every incident. I've been hooked to a flooded scooter (Mako with a blown out faceplate), caught in a down current, run out of air at depth, but I assure you, none of those things happened twice.

As I've harped many times, diving is inherently dangerous, but we can do it safely, and that means never falling prey to the trap of complacency. Could the dangers of solo deco diving over what is essentially a bottomless void (in scuba terms anyway) been avoided? Certainly, as solo deco dives over bottomless voids occur every day somewhere in the world. Would a boat have helped? Don't know about that, nor do I know that a lift bag, SMB, lifeline radio, PLB, Signalling dye, recent diving physical from a competent physician, following buddy rules, portable one man raft, more comprehensive training, etc would have helped, because we don't know what got him.

All we can do is speculate, and more importantly, critically ask ourselves "What would I do if....?" AND THEN PRACTICE!!!! How many here have practiced lift bag buoyancy in a flooded drysuit? It sucks doing it, because you can no longer see anything. The liftbag is in front of your face. Maybe you can see your depth device and the dump knob from your liftbag. What would I do if I ran out of air? And then see if your 13 gets you to the surface from 220 feet (hint-it won't). What would I do if my gas were unbreathable (too much O2 for the depth, or too much helium, or whatever). Do you know what depth you get the wah-wahs at? I'll bet Kaydee does. For air, 32%, and 80%. I know I have a much higher tolerance for O2 than my wife does, and she doesn't get narced when I'm giggling.

If you're going to play diving games, the kind aside from 80/80/80, which admittedly are my favorite kind, you need to know more about yourself, understand the risks involved, and take your action to mitigate those risks.

Cameron had a boat sink out from under him last year. A boat that I knew about, and would never have gotten on. That's experience. Experience comes from surviving bad decisions. I've never had a boat sink out from under me, but I've seen lots of boats I wouldn't get on that later sank.....

 

[mtngoat2674]

This ↑
While I acknowledge that there are underwater searches ongoing, I am still not convinced he surfaced. I am not being critical so don't flame me. I am glad the SAR efforts include the underwater teams. This is a huge SAR Op as it involves a lot of possibilities and all need to be addressed.

Cameron believed, very strongly, in his ability to reach the surface under even the most dire if circumstances. Knowing him and his convictions, as well as his abilities and personality overall is where some of the opinions on what happened are coming from. These opinions are not objective and are often difficult to articulate. I'm not saying it's impossible he failed to surface, but knowing him, I think it's unlikely.

That said, I think discussing the perils of diving solo in a volatile high current area is worthwhile.

 

[johndiver999]

Can someone provide some input about the gas management procedures or constraints that would
arise from a dive with 30 minutes of deco and a max
Depth of around 150 - which seems ???? To be the relevant profile.

More specifically what kind of bottom time and air
Consumption rate and volume would be expected for a diver to accrue 30 or more minutes of deco for a dive that was presumably shallow at the start with an excursion to deep over the wall and perhaps back onto and over the shallower reef.

I’m trying to envision the time at depth (and depth) required to get that much deco for a non repetitive dive and what kind of emergency reserves of gas supply would be necessary and available with 2 80’s?

I don’t have the software to run the numbers myself for a potential profile and don’t have a good intuitive feel for the amount of gas it takes to get that much of a hang and how much it takes to clear it and how much reserve needs to be available to handle a tank/regulator failure.

I know using a scooter could reduce exertion levels and air use tremendously.

I looked at a navy table and did some arithmetic on an envelope with a straight down and up profile, and it looks really tight to me with respect to potential air reserves that kind of setup would provide for a dive to 150 that yields 30 minute of deco.

I’m sure the math is not challenging for tech divers who know how to use software. Does the profile being described as usual make sense?

 

[lv2dive]

I didn’t understand your comment was in reference to @Sloeber’s comment that was quoted earlier the thread, my apologies. Of course there is no way of 100% knowing Cameron made it to the surface, but the opinion of personal friend/buddy of Cameron’s who is familiar with his skills/experience as well as the local conditions carries a lot of weight with me.

I was responding to the quote in post #7 that "they were positive he made it to the surface", especially since nobody even saw him ascending. I'm not sure LCF ever surfaced either, even though she was last seen ascending. I do understand the hopefulness that being on the surface brings.