Accident & Incident Discussion - Northernone - aka Cameron Donaldson

[MichaelMc]

My takeaways, after re-reading the thread and particularly Ray and lionfish-eater's posts, and Jay's great fact digest.

High current, open sea, and no go-big signaling device seems a bad idea. Though it may have made no difference.

Stronger currents may be days for no or shorter dives. For me, turbulent currents seem further than I want to go.

I look forward to NYCNaid's summary of signaling devices.
For me, a green laser (OrcaTorch D560-GL, thanks RainPilot) might be an early, compact and waterproof add for my no-current shore dives. To my whistle, lights, DSMB, mirror, yellow trash bag buoy, and redundant air and buoyancy.

When I started solo diving, I posted that I felt a gap in being able to signal shore that I needed help, if I got back to the surface but was injured. I mentioned then that a radio would be a good bit of solo safety kit. I'll have to look at that.

I'm not worried by the 150' solo with two tanks, aside from narcosis issues. It's beyond my range much less comfort zone, but apparently not Cameron's.

Some times you just lose.

 

[MargaritaMike]

Given all of the unknowns in this thread, I guess my big takeaway is that if he had an underwater medical incident, had been another diver there to witness/assist, it may have ended differently. The second takeaway (and maybe he had this, I don't know) is that should he have made it to the surface, sound surface signalling/alarms would have assisted in the search and recovery. Sound about right?

I'm not sure sound surface signaling/alarms would have helped. They are good (sometimes) in relatively close proximity. They definitely would not have helped an air search or a dive boat while it was running above idle. A mirror might have helped, a SOLAS DSMB might have helped. WHO KNOWS???? It's all conjecture at this point. Underwater, a buddy MIGHT have changed the outcome for a medical event - only if it meant recovery. I am no expert. I just know what I carry and why. Incidentally, it's insufficient as stated in an earlier post.
Just my $.02
M²

 

[MargaritaMike]

Yes - it was a horrible translation - see my earlier post

There is no one proposing that shore diving be banned - in fact, we are discussing having signs made for shore diving sites with recommendations for the specific sites and risks, recommendations, etc. - NOT banning tham

That would be GREAT, Christi

M²

 

[Pedro Burrito]

---

---

A ScubaBoard Staff Message...

Good Morning! I just woke up and saw about six pages of posts that were off topic to this discussion. I deleted them. Please keep this thread to a discussion of Cameron's incident.

Also, we did not change any Terms of Service rules and we are not showing any favoritism to Cameron over any other diver. What is different about this thread is that we knew and loved the person involved. It's far easier to discuss person X, whom we never heard of, then Cameron.

I apologize if I was heavy handed in this latest pruning of the thread. Let me know or send an email to abuse@scubaboard.com if you think you were treated unfairly.

Thank you.

---

 

[Protondecay123]

Scan the A&I forum. Divers of all types and training and from all walks of life and from all parts of the world die while scuba diving. By your logic, none of us should dive.

After scanning the A&I forum, using your logic there would be more bodies left in Davey Jones’s locker due to a complete disregard of diving safety rules.

 

[Protondecay123]

With all due respect, do you think that most diving deaths occur with people not following the rules? I see people dying in all different sorts of dives. No question if the depth limit was 10' there would be less deaths of people following the rules. If OW was a 1 year course that cost $10K there would be less certified divers dying. But the normal way we gain experience is by doing things that are slightly beyond our comfort levels and continuing to do them until we are very comfortable doing them. This occurs more safely with a good instructor but it occurs on our own too. All of these things are more dangerous to do than not to do. Diving has risk. The more we dive the more likely we will die diving. But very likely the more we dive the less likely we are to die on a given dive. That would really bother me but driving has risk too, with the same result.

With all due respect do think that most diving deaths are purely incident and have nothing to do with Safety rules? Obviously there is risk and the reason for safety rules like 130 fsw are to mitigate those risks.

 

[KenGordon]

The BSAC Incident Report 2018 has this to say:

“As has been stated for over fifty years in our annual report, most of the incidents reported within this document could have been avoided had those involved followed a few basic principles of safe diving practice.”

This is why training exists, to let people dive safely. The training builds upon mistakes made in the past. Some of those are non obvious mistakes. Obviously boundaries get pushed, but when doing that there is extra risk and mitigating that is sensible.

 

[Dominik_E]

The problem here is that nothing is known about the accident. It is therefore not at all good reasoning to extend "most accidents could have been avoided by following basic safety procedures" to "this specific accident could have been avoided".

 

[Rechno]

Without knowing what exactly happend (which will likely never be the case) or at least having a solid base for educated guesses, it is all speculation. And while it is not a bad idea to discuss possible scenarios and try to learn from the discussion, you should not blame anyone based on pure speculation.

Diving is all about mitigation of risk and acceptance of a certain varying level of remaining risk, depending on the circumstances and dive plan.
A diver with 20 dives that decides to go to 180feet with a single tank might survive. If he then repeats the same dive over and over again, this will be "normalisation of deviance". If a diver takes his time, prepares for such a dive, brings the right, redundant equipment etc. it is suddenly a whole different thing.For me, the most important difference is the attitude towards the situation. In the first case the diver either does not think about the potential risks or thinks "it will be fine" whereas in the second case, the diver thinks through the risks, develops strategies to decrease them and knowingly accepts the remaining ones.

Whats a boundary for one person is not necessary one for another.

 

[BRT]

With all due respect do think that most diving deaths are purely incident and have nothing to do with Safety rules? Obviously there is risk and the reason for safety rules like 130 fsw are to mitigate those risks.

To answer your question, yes, I think most diving deaths happen while people are following the rules. A whole bunch of them are heart attacks or other medical incidents. Probably more than we will ever know. Can you answer mine?