Accepting Responsibility for Your Own Safety

[Hoyden]

I think that it is commendable that Matt opened this discussion up and has been so honest in his self-evaluation. My take on all of this is that Matt is doing dives beyond his experience/competence/comfort level and using a DM as a Band-Aid.

Matt, I strongly suggest that you get more experience in a more controlled environment, preferably one with a shallow bottom. After several dives at fairly shallow depths with a bottom, then plan a little deeper dives and then progress slowly and safely to more challenging environments. Some have suggested local dives, but you really are not ready for thedives off our Maryland coast. There are few saltwater dives in our area that don't include being far from shore above cold water with limited vis and I am pretty sure that none of our local dive boatsoffer the kind of DM supervision you want/need. Local quarries can offer you the chance to gain time in the water and dive experience, but they are generally cold below 20 feet. You might consider weekend trips to Lake Rawlingsin VA as it is the closest place with reasonable water temps and vis. You might consider more training classes with a different instructor as a way to gain more experience under supervision. With the right instructor, you would probably benefit from classes like underwaternavigation and peak performance buoyancy. Please rethink doing dives with DM supervision that you are not comfortable doing unsupervised. You are putting your life into the hands of a stranger and trusting in their skill.

Jackie

 

[wtcreaux]

And BTW, Peter won't give somebody a certification card if he doesn't think they're capable of diving independently. And in our private classes, dive four of the OW class (if the viz is better than 5 feet) is planned and executed by the students, with me and Peter hanging above and behind to monitor and ensure safety. But the students do the dive, including the navigation.

IMHO, this pretty much sums up the "instructor issue." It's not about the agency or the dive shop.

OP, please understand that the "requirements" are the BARE MINIMUM. How each instructor teaches and to what level (bare minimum v above and beyond) truly makes the difference.

One of the eye-openers for me (on this forum) has been the "lowest common denominator" that is too commonly discussed. I leave it to the various instructors here who have written much more on the subject.

Suffice it to say, I don't think the OP would have even thought of this topic had he had an "above & beyond" instructor(s).

 

[chrpai]

If I still lived in Virginia I'd be inviting Matt out to Millbrook Quarry every chance he could come. Yes, it's cold, but that's kind of the point. You learn how to control bouyancy in a 2pc 7mil with cold, low vis water at depth and in the shallows and then go hit the DE/NJ wreck dives. It's like learning to be an IFR rated pilot so that when you go down to warm blue water with just a dive skin it's a walk in the park.

I'm in Austin, TX these days but if anyone ever wants a buddy mentor to go diving with, I'm always available.

 

[ScubaSteve1962]

One of the major differences is ability to navigate successfully. In my mind, safety comes in two flavors:
1) DCS type of safety -- that would be you monitoring your depth, air, NDL if applicable etc...
2) Ability to get back to the boat, and especially so if drift diving.

I expect ALL certified divers to take care of their own DCS related safety, I expect my buddy to make a judgement call to end the dive if he/she is uncomfortable (I subscribe to a philosophy where any diver can end a dive at any time for any reason) -- if my buddy ends the dive, I go up regardless of what I'd like to do and will not question it; I expect the same in return.

I ping my buddy on regular basis for AIR / NDL information ONLY so I can understand what the schedule looks like (yes, dive plans don't always work out well in real life if someone is having a bad day and is worse with air, computers differ in their safety margin and tank pressures do vary upfront). I will never interfere with his / her call to continue unless I'm in direct conflict with that decision... if my buddy thinks that he / she has enough air for NDL/Deco plan we dive I will not question it. By an extension, if a DM is telling me and my buddy to start ascend at 1000 PSI while next to the boat without good reason (e.g. the dive is over for some reason), I will follow, but that will be the last time I went diving with that DM.


The second safety element is a bit different -- getting back to the boat (and not being stuck on the surface waiting for a search party) is a major element, and while I expect ALL certified divers to take care of their DCS safety, navigation is tricky. Personally, I prefer a guide with me so I can devote attention to what is around me rather than checking my bearing, tracking the bottom and current. Can I do that -- yes, can I go down without a DM / Guide -- absolutely, am I more comfortable going down with a person that knows the site and environmental situation -- absolutely.

I appreciate your point, but that still doesn't tell me why you think someone would need a DM going from a warm environment to a cold environment, you and a buddy should still be able to make the dive, by following your training. No matter what the vis I'm still following my compass, to listen to those that say you need a DM I shouldn't have taken the nav part of my AOW because vis was bad, so to get back to the instructor/DM I had to get it right. I'm deep certified, but I'm also an air hog, so until I get that mastered I don't go deep, I wouldn't want to go deep and then have to share air with my buddy because he's there.

 

[citycountryguy]

Matt,

You are a physician, so I think you understand a bit about liability exposure, etc....has the person with whom you dive, whether DM or Buddy, accepted that they are responsible for your safety? Have they agreed to that in a manner that is clear and unequivocal? Or to make it more about the topic in general, do you think that newly certified divers should formally request/expect that those with whom they are diving agree that they have liability for the new diver's safety?

I agree that anyone who is uncomfortable in a setting can hire a professional to go with them to provide some level of oversight, etc. That is different, though, than what I would consider basic diving skills, which is what I believe I am personally and solely responsible for, and which I work on whenever I can get wet. And I am a fairly newly certified diver who wants to become more proficient in those skills as a matter of course.

Anyway, that notion of shifting liability/responsibility seems to be what is implied in your posts, but I can't really tell. And I can understand why that would make some dive professionals react. Of course, in the end, if someone dies or is injured, the notion of who was responsible or liable is all for others to discuss, not the newly certified diver--who is no longer with us.

 

[AaronRiot]

At Cozumel this week my DM suggested I add air to or subtract air from my BC a couple of times when I was finning a lot to maintain my buoyancy. That advice was well taken. He also helped me locate my buddy when I forgot to keep track of where he was and misplaced him a couple of times. At one point along a wall I inadvertently descended from 80 to 97 feet rather quickly, and my buddy (not the DM) swam down and grabbed me before I had descended further. I knew I was at 97 feet, and I was watching my computer. But it probably wasn't a good idea to be down there when the rest of the group was at 80. At no time did I feel in any danger, and at no time did I feel that the DM was really necessary for my safety. But I don't think that it's a bad idea to have the DM there just in case. And when I say I'm not qualified to guarantee my own safety, I mean that I might easily have made a mistake. Losing track of my buddy was a mistake that could prove fatal, though perhaps not when you're swimming in a group. Fatal for my buddy perhaps. That's not good. And I shouldn't have done it. But I did. What if a down-current had caught me on the wall and taken me down to 120 feet? Lots of things could happen where a DM would be good to have around, it seems to me. Especially for a newby like me. Does this mean I shouldn't be diving? No. It just means that somebody with my experience is safer with a DM watching out for him.

So, Matt, let's get a couple things straight since you appear to have forgotten.

I was said buddy who pulled Matt up a bit. I was not however with him on the dive he 'misplaced' his buddy and had not heard about that one until now.

Anyway. Dive plan. Palancar Caves. Max depth 80-90fsw. Stay at same depth or 5ft above the DM. Stay behind the DM. Stay within 4-5ft of the wall. Be careful with your fins in the swim-throughs. Ascend at 45-50min or once you reach 700psi with your buddy(s). Watch your computers - no deco please. We had an uneven number so myself, Matt, and another diver buddied as a three pack.

Anyway. We came out onto the wall from a swim through at around 85ft. The rest of the group (we were last) were headed up the wall a bit. Matt was first, myself second, and our third buddy followed behind.

Instead of following the group Matt drifted out from the wall. I was torn between watching for our third to exit the swim through and going to Matt. I had a responsibility to both divers. I watched Matt and he had not checked his gauges since exiting the swim through. He was slowly descending as he slowly kicked up. I was very concerned at this point and decided if I did not act then it would be a risk. I looked back one more time, thought I saw my third buddies light, and bolted down and out to grab Matt and pull him in and slowly up a bit. I stayed within a kick or two of Matt for the remainder of the time on the wall.

Upon surfacing and entering the boat I went about my business waiting to see what would be said. Nothing was. I asked Matt if he knew why I pulled him in. He shrugged. I explained how he was below 100ft and out from the wall. Matt said he was not aware you had to stick to the wall (was in the briefing) and denied the depth I said. We compared computers. Matt 103ft, me 101ft - I was above him and pulled him up from under his right arm. His response was along the lines of oh but I like to/wanted to go deep and I'll pay more attn next time. (that is not an exact quote I'm sorry).

I realize Matt may have been just fine. I however was not comfortable with exceeding the dive plan. I also was not comfortable performing a rescue had something gone wrong at an ever-increasing depth (gear malfunction, stronger down current, etc). So I moved rather than waiting around to see what happened.

If you're going to tell a story, Matt, tell it true.

I have followed this thread and wanted to stay out of it bc I'm new and don't think I should be doling out advice. However, I will say, from my own experience, I felt competent after OW. From OW I practiced my skills on every dive. That being said, in a completely new environment, I would be one to hire a DM on the first dive. In this case (Coz) I took AOW, and had a private instructor with me on my first deep wall. Still, I always had a plan in the back of my mind as to what I would do if myself OR my instructor buddy got into a jam. Just bc he was a pro does not make him invincible.

Like TSandM said, if you're going to be traveling alone and are diving a completely new environment it's nice to have a buddy who you've paid to follow and pay attention to a plan you yourself feel good about. At least for the first tank or two while you get your bearings.

Just my two pesos.

The thing that makes me sad about all this is that he just went on an invasion with a bunch of fellow scubaboarders. I'd hope that he'd be in post vacation bliss and that someone would have taken him under their wing while down there and turned his diving around. I wasn't there so I don't know all the dynamics but I'd hope to see a post more along the lines of "I just had a great time, thank you so much to XYZ because now I'm enjoying my diving so much more."

The times I was Matt's buddy I did my best to help him as much as I could... unfortunately most of my underwater signals and such were ignored. ie, descend horizantal so you're not kicking up trying to go down, clear every foot or two, tuck your hands in. I do believe several group members did attempt to give Matt advice (even as new as we all were), as did the DM (who really was phenominal), and several SBer's who were not in our group and MUCH more experienced...

 

[EastEndDiver]

So now we hear the other side of the story......very enlightening.

 

[redacted]

Instead of following the group Matt drifted out from the wall. I was torn between watching for our third to exit the swim through and going to Matt. I had a responsibility to both divers. I watched Matt and he had not checked his gauges since exiting the swim through. He was slowly descending as he slowly kicked up. I was very concerned at this point and decided if I did not act then it would be a risk. I looked back one more time, thought I saw my third buddies light, and bolted down and out to grab Matt and pull him in and slowly up a bit. I stayed within a kick or two of Matt for the remainder of the time on the wall.

It is a good thing it was you. Had it have been me, the third person would have been my wife/buddy and Matt would have been on his own when we exited the swim-thru and he left the group.

Food for thought.

 

[chrpai]

But according to his trip report the divemaster was taking care of the whole group every moment.

I feel for you Aaron. 2's company, 3's a crowd. Most threesomes don't go well.

 

[Wookie]

As I understand the practice and training for a career in medicine, it kind of brings up something that may be pertinent here.

A prospective physician attends the school of their choice for 4 years of undergrad work, then for 4 years of med school, all the while being supervised in a classroom situation by professors who may or not be physicians themselves. Following Med school, a physician would undergo some type of internship where they would be supervised by practicing physicians and every move they make questioned and quizzed. Following internship, a physician might be a resident somewhere, where they would always report to and have the chief resident watching over them. Eventually, a physician might open their own practice and still have privileges at a local hospital, where they are responsible to no one in their practice, but must report to the chief medical officer at the hospital or have their privileges revoked.

Diving isn't that way. When you earn your c-card you have earned the right to call yourself a diver and dive to the limits of your training, experience, and comfort level. If you don't feel comfortable, trained, or experienced to dive to 60 feet NDL dives, well then, you need more training, experience or comfort. Comfort comes with training and experience. Anyway, if you need a divemaster or a buddy to hold your hand, tell you when to add air to your BC, make sure you listen to the dive briefing and not get 10 feet off the wall in Cozumel (all of which you learned or should have learned in OW class, to say nothing of AOW and Rescue), then that person isn't a diver, they are a student, or a DSD, or anything but a diver.

Had I realized after 22 dives that I didn't feel that I could trust myself on a dive, or found out that I was ill-equipped to take responsibility for myself with the bounds of my training, experience or comfort, I'd go back to my certifying instructor and punch him or her. Right smack in the nuts. Or whatever. This instructor has done a disservice to the diver and to the greater diving community.