About steel tanks and rigging in general

[Sparksi]

Hey all,

Glad to have recently joined the SM community! So, after getting my trusted twins (and all other equipment *sigh*) stolen, I made a semi-informed decision to switch from backmount to sidemount. I got a pretty good deal on a barely used set of steel 10L/232bar tanks, Apeks WSX harness and a set of Mares 25XR DR regs (more on these later).

Now mind you, i'm a DM and have a tec45 cert with about 700 dives, but have not (atleast yet) taken a sidemount course, which I'm sure would solve a lot of the small kinks and questions. So far, I'm quite happy with all the adjustments and feel absolutely great in water, and outside of a few minor details getting looked into feel like I wouldn't necessarily gain much more than some advice that any seasoned sidemounteer can provide. Am I just flat out in the wrong here?

The question is: Switching tanks to "front position" (unclip, bring to front) feels downright impossible. I've seen videos of this being done with barely any effect on boyancy. When I do the same, the negative tanks obviously will bring my center of gravity forward and I will tip over. Pretty much the same happens if I for example want to tuck my longhose and unclip for that or whatever other reason. Just a feature of steel tanks or what am I missing here?

I have independent loop bungees that have a boltsnaps on them (clipped to chest d-rings) mostly just to keep them in place for easier reach with drygloves and suit. Tanks are oriented so that valves point outwards and regs towards me. Loops go over around the valve post and loop around the "extended post" to provide torque and twist tanks close to my sides. Now steels are heavy, so the sliding d-rings are pretty close to my buttplate. I'd like to have the tanks to be just slightly more "valve handles up", now they tend to slightly droop below horizontal. Which way should I look to adjust my boltsnap on tank band? Wish it was a bit easier over here to just get to test this stuff in water...

So, it turns out even though I was buying a "full SM ready kit", the Mares 25XR is NOT the best option for SM as it has no "5th port", but all LP hoses point down and HP ports are slightly slanted (?) to opposing sides for I really don't know what reason. I managed to get myself 90-degree LP adaptors on both inflator hoses and they seem to work surprisingly well. Any thoughts on this? Didn't really have much of an issue without them either, just a bit longer hoses for suit and BC but the adaptors sure clean away a bit of clutter.

Also, any tricks to get that loop bungee around the valvepost in drygloves? I always manage to get my glove thumb stuck between the loop and the post and then getting it snap back off. God I miss Thailand...

Sorry for a bit of a ramble, just trying to make some sense out of this myself!

 

[NYCrecdiver]

Welcome to sidemount diving! On your last question, I added 2 small paracord loops to my bungees. Keep them in place with a cabletie. This allows me to put my thumb in those as I pull my bungee over my valve post. These added loops also makes it easier to unbungeeing at end of dive.
On your regs: I would not dive sidemount w/or regs with a 5th port.
I dive with steel LP85s. Clip them off on my xDeep drop rings all the way back. When they start to float a bit at the back, I reclip them on sliding D rings.

 

[happy-diver]

GETTING SIDEMOUNT TANKS TO BEHAVE THEMSELVES AND SIT WHERE THEY SHOULD

By Steve Lewis One of the least mysterious things about sidemount diving is how to rig a set of steel primary cylinders so they hang at divers sides as they are supposed to, rather than hanging pen…

decodoppler.wordpress.com

Yeah I'm going to get into sidemount for ocean diving exactly the same way Charlton Heston got out of guns

 

[lostsheep]

I dive with steel LP85s. Clip them off on my xDeep drop rings all the way back. When they start to float a bit at the back, I reclip them on sliding D rings.

If you have sliding Drings, why are you reclipping them? Can’t you just slide the D rings?

 

[Jens Bölte]

Hello

How have you positioned the boltsnap in relation to the valve post? The bungee is trying to pull the valve post "out", away from your body/chest, while the boltsnap is working against the pull of the bungee. So you could increase the pull of the bungee by shortening it, or by removing the boltsnap, which would effectively shorten the bungee. The would create more pull on the valve turning it more outwards.

If you move the boltsnap inwards (towards your body/chest) relative to the valve post, the valve will turn outwards more easily, away from your body/chest, given the same pull of the bungee. You can test the effect of the boltsnap position on the valve position on land by moving the boltsnap to a 09:00 or 03:00 position with the valve post at 12:00 to experience the difference. The suggested positions are extreme positions to learn the effect of the boltsnap position on the valve position.

Best wishes Jens

 

[Wibble]

... I'd like to have the tanks to be just slightly more "valve handles up", now they tend to slightly droop below horizontal. Which way should I look to adjust my boltsnap on tank band?

Adjust the bottom clip to be more to the right.

With cyliinder standing upright, you looking down with the valve outlet pointing towards you in the 6 o'clock position... The LH cylinder needs to have the bottom bolt snap in the 4:30 position; RH at 7:30 position.

Bungees need tweaking so that they twist the cylinder around under your armpit; tight but not too tight.

You play with these "settings" until it's correct for you. With sidemount there's no rules; do what works for you.

My sidemount cylinders look like this. OK, these are my bailout tins, but they're bungeed as sidemount. My sidemount cylinders are configured exactly the same -- the top bolt snap means it's easier to clip on when sitting on the boat then sort out the bungee during the descent. Remove the bungee prior to getting back on the boat so others can take them from you.

Sidemounted bailout

The thing with sidemount is just go and do it. You don't need to do a course with a plastic card, you just need to dive it. Of course it's easier if you've a day with a sidemount person or instructor as sidemount is all about the subtle adjustments.

 

[Sparksi]

Thanks a lot for all the answers! Just got back from the shore from a quick test run. Looks like Wibble's solution for boltclip placement was spot on! Now they are perfect when bungeed in! =) Also added small loops to bungees for thumbs, I have no idea how I can be this dense not to think of this earlier!!

On your regs: I would not dive sidemount w/or regs with a 5th port.

Yeah, neither would I, now that I know better, but for the time being the 90-degree addons will have to do the job. Unfortunately. :/ To be fair, I really like these Mares 25XR's otherwise, tho. A bit heavy, but also feels very rugged.

My sidemount cylinders look like this. OK, these are my bailout tins, but they're bungeed as sidemount. My sidemount cylinders are configured exactly the same -- the top bolt snap means it's easier to clip on when sitting on the boat then sort out

The thing with sidemount is just go and do it. You don't need to do a course with a plastic card, you just need to dive it. Of course it's easier if you've a day with a sidemount person or instructor as sidemount is all about the subtle adjustments.

Thanks a lot, "problem" solved! I also use top boltsnaps, but just on a loop around the post. Feels like using that "bridge" to anchor that as in a stage kit, the tanks would be more stable even before bungeeing in... Might give those another try as well.

And for the latter: my thoughts exactly, thanks!

 

[Wibble]

N.B. use big boltsnaps as they're
a) longer,
b) usable with drygloves,
c) kinder to the fingers when lifting heavy tanks.

 

[grantmac]

If your tanks are negative enough to not get floaty in the bottom when empty then run them on the drop-D rings. You will not be able to gun them forward, only tanks which are neutral can do that trick.

If they are sitting valves low (especially when full) then move the bottom boltsnap up the tank towards the valve, this will level the tank without needing excessive bungee strength. If you think about it ideally the tank without reg should balance at the bottom boltsnap then the bungee is just there to lift the weight of the reg which doesn't change.

Running chokers and boltsnaps all the time will not let the tanks tuck nicely behind your shoulders. Just use a double ender when you absolutely need it. In my experience this is only when a bungee snaps which is very rare. I backroll and giant stride with 12L steels using a 6mm bungee.

Personal opinion here: sidemount works best with the absolute minimum of complexity. I've gone through the cycle of adding things to make it "easier". Not I run loop bungees without anything to help me grab them and they have just a loop of 3mm bungee which can slide along my shoulder straps. Because I have my tanks balanced by the boltsnap I don't need short or strong bungees so they are easy to grab with drygloves. Just run your hands down the shoulder straps until you hit the 3mm bungee loop, then the main bungee is right there.

 

[Sparksi]

Personal opinion here: sidemount works best with the absolute minimum of complexity. I've gone through the cycle of adding things to make it "easier". Not I run loop bungees without anything to help me grab them and they have just a loop of 3mm bungee which can slide along my shoulder straps.

Absolutely agree, not only SM wise but diving in general! Your point on balancing the tank over the hip connection makes sense, I will take a look on that next time. My 10L tanks are obviously a bit shorten than 12L and still have my bands set up like they should be on the latter.