Ever been underwater when an earthquake hit- I have. I never felt a thing (Beach dive years back at Haggerty's in PV, Calif. Came out of the water Statred driving home and everything was a mess- traffic lights out, all kinds of caos- found out on the radio what had happened.
Abort or not
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Charlie99
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NOAA doesn't back you and NetDoc up. The most common locations of lightning casualties are Unknown (40%), open area and trees (27% & 14%). Next most common is "water related, fishing, boating, swimming, etc" at 8.1%. This is higher than golfing at 3.9% or standing under a tree at a golf course, 1%,
Considering that most people don't spend 8% of their swimming or diving, that shows that being in the water DOES signficantly increase the risk. http://www.nssl.noaa.gov/papers/techmemos/NWS-SR-193/techmemo-sr193-11.html#table34
Considering that the fresh water of a spring is much less conductive than salt water, I would expect the effects of lightning to extend much further in fresh than saltwater.
Were it true that, as NetDoc claims, "Even spring water has enough electrolytes in it to dissapate the largest strike within a few inches.", then the national lightning safety institute wouldn't have this recommendation for lightning safety at swimming pools.
The Chairman
Chairman of the Board
IMPORTANT SAFETY BULLETIN: DO NOT AT ANY TIME ATTEMPT CAVE DIVING IN A POOL DURING AN ELECTRICAL STORM. :tease:
If/when the NOAA issues a warning (not holding my breath here) about DIVING and electrical storms then I will take notice. For me, the safest place is UNDER the water with that HUGE electrical buffer above me. Did you happen to notice that the section entitled "Water related, fishing, boating, swimming, etc." listed activities that occur mostly at or above the surface and not below it?
To suggest that you are at risk of a lightening strike several hundred feet back in a cave is absolutely absurd. Think of all the fish that would have been fried if that were the case.
If/when the NOAA issues a warning (not holding my breath here) about DIVING and electrical storms then I will take notice. For me, the safest place is UNDER the water with that HUGE electrical buffer above me. Did you happen to notice that the section entitled "Water related, fishing, boating, swimming, etc." listed activities that occur mostly at or above the surface and not below it?
To suggest that you are at risk of a lightening strike several hundred feet back in a cave is absolutely absurd. Think of all the fish that would have been fried if that were the case.
Ender
Registered
Boating in storm is dangerous - you're in a floating chunk of metal, considerably higher than the surrouding area. Even a wooden yach has quite a few metal things on it, often right on the top of the mast). So unless it's split further, I would not take it as a conclusive evidence.
Regards,
Vlad
Charlie99
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Perhaps you don't believe the published trip report those two divers who were willing to put the names and reputation on the line.
After having read many of your posts, I would believe some anonymous trip report before taking your word on something.
While others didn't write trip reports on the Ginnie Springs incident, apparently there were other divers in the cave that felt the lightning strikes, although not as severely.
What is absurd is your statement: "Even spring water has enough electrolytes in it to dissapate the largest strike within a few inches.".
Besides these cave divers, others have reported being affected by lightning strikes in or near quarries.
The first step in controlling and managing risks is to understand them.
The Chairman
Chairman of the Board
So... would you say that a knee jerk response to something someone thinks somewhere just MIGHT have happened just then might also be inappropriate? I do. And so I would hasten to add that while I BELIEVE that something happened to these people, I do not believe that it had anything to do with lightning. There has been a long history of contaminated water (a halocline of sorts) in that region. They could have swum through water that was laden with sulfuric acid (or other impurity)and possibly have had the same reactions... that "tingly" feeling.
OK... just trot out these reports so we can read them. We will wait patiently as you do so. Maybe show us one lightning related underwater death. I would be interested to see if you can produce any such thing. If its THAT dangerous, then someone somewhere has surely died from it.
So it's just about proving me wrong then? Please, you won't be the first if you do, and I am open to real science. I am not open to the voodoo science and illogic that you just presented.
1) I have never said lightning was NOT dangerous. I believe quite the opposite.
2) I never predicated my arguments on ANY of your other posts on other threads. Like my posts elsewhere, they are not germane to the issues at hand. Attacking me thus only lends an air of desperation to your arguments. Stick with the facts at hand.
3) I am not willing to base my knowledge of how electricity and lightning work on the observations of two cave divers who became disoriented. For whatever reason they became disjointed, their subsequent observations have been clouded by that same disorientation. They have become unreliable witnesses. Heck, they could have pinned it on the price of cheese in Jersey and been closer to reality.
Personally, I think Sharpenu's "Bwahahaha" puts it in perspective. That would apply to your logic here as well.
FWIW... as a regulator, I am allowed to have opinions and disagree with people. However, I am still waiting to hear what a bad moderator I am for this.
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