A very interesting exercise

[TSandM]

So, today, Peter and I did a shore dive on Maui. Warm water, pretty great viz (30 - 40 feet). I had warned him that he was fair game for an air-share drill at any point in the dive.

So, at about 30 fsw, and about 15 to 20 feet apart (do not ask me if I think that's okay or not -- it will become clear), I decided to do the drill. I stopped at full exhale, simulating a total reg failure with empty lungs. I discovered (as I had learned the prior time I started this exercise and abandoned it) that you are stressed not only by trying to get to your buddy, but by having to swim UPWARD, because of course, you become negative when you stop at full exhalation. I got to Peter, who was framing a photograph and therefore not looking at me at all, tugged at his arm, and got him to look at me, at which time I signalled that I was out of air. He deployed his reg promptly . . . but I will tell you that, by the time I got it, purged it, and got that first breath, I was stressed. That was despite the fact that this was artificial, and at any time I could have picked up my secondary and used it.

It was a real object lesson in buddy separation, and situational awareness. I was amazed at how stressful it was, despite the fact that I orchestrated it and had an easy out at any point.

I think we should all try something like this, particularly people who think increased buddy separation in tropical waters is acceptable.

 

[slammer]

That is exactly why I carry a 19cu pony bottle. Brad @ B&B scuba gave me a ribbing about carrying one. I told him I didn't know who my buddy was and after I found out I was sure happy I brought it along. (just kidding g man)I've dove every dive so far with it. About 45 dives in two weeks, chuuk and maui trips. It seems second nature now to carry one. Good peice of mind for me!

 

[Wildcard]

30-40 feet sucks! I was thinking of something like this a while back but without warning, just as a drill. I opted out becouse of the "wolf" problems. With warning though????

 

[Darnold9999]

I am one of those who thinks that a greater separation is acceptable in good vis. Don't need to be joined at the hip with my buddy if I am in visual contact with them.

Sounds like you simulated a pretty typical situation - except it was very shallow. 20 feet apart, buddy not paying attention taking pictures, full exhale 30 feet down. Now you know you can do it, know that 20 feet is not unreasonable, but it is perhaps at the max of what you are comfortable with. Everyone has different comfort levels under water - 20 feet is not really that far - perhaps a 5 second swim and even on a full exhale and taking another 5 seconds to figure out that I need air from someone else that is less than half of what is available to most.

If when it really happens and you look around and your buddy is more than 20 feet away you can surface easily from that depth. Not a bad second choice. I do have to say as I go deeper my comfort level re separation goes down. Prepared to wander at 60 feet or less, at 100 I want to be quite a bit closer - fewer options and less time to make decisions.

I am also thinking that I want some very easy way to make a very loud noise so that my buddy meets me half way or knows that I am doing an emergency ascent - even if they are taking pictures. If you trust your buddy this effectively almost doubles the "wander" distance as they will be coming to you as you go to them.

YMMV and I expect that this topic will generate some "interesting" discussion.

 

[Sasquatch]

We're so close with visibility so low here lately that I just grab my buddy's secondary and breath a while...he never knows and now we surface at a similar PSI.

 

[Rick Inman]

So, today, Peter and I did a shore dive on Maui. Warm water, pretty great viz (30 - 40 feet). I had warned him that he was fair game for an air-share drill at any point in the dive.

So, at about 30 fsw, and about 15 to 20 feet apart (do not ask me if I think that's okay or not -- it will become clear), I decided to do the drill. I stopped at full exhale, simulating a total reg failure with empty lungs. I discovered (as I had learned the prior time I started this exercise and abandoned it) that you are stressed not only by trying to get to your buddy, but by having to swim UPWARD, because of course, you become negative when you stop at full exhalation. I got to Peter, who was framing a photograph and therefore not looking at me at all, tugged at his arm, and got him to look at me, at which time I signalled that I was out of air. He deployed his reg promptly . . . but I will tell you that, by the time I got it, purged it, and got that first breath, I was stressed. That was despite the fact that this was artificial, and at any time I could have picked up my secondary and used it.

It was a real object lesson in buddy separation, and situational awareness. I was amazed at how stressful it was, despite the fact that I orchestrated it and had an easy out at any point.

I think we should all try something like this, particularly people who think increased buddy separation in tropical waters is acceptable.

Funny, I just did this Tuesday - but not by choice, like you did!

My instructor had me hold until he swam off 50' away into the 6' vis gloom. I waited alone until I was sure he was 50' away, then I had to take my reg out of my mouth and catch up to him on the single breath and begin sharing air. I'll tell you, about half way there I thought I might not make it (it reminded me of a pool swim that we did once ). As soon as I had his reg in my mouth he handed me his reel and started us off toward the ledge. I was huffing and puffing and signaled him to hold for a minute so I could catch my breath, but he said no and kept us going. Later, he told me that in a real world situation, Murphy visits in twos and threes, and that I would have to learn to catch my breath while handling the next situation, and that just hanging out catching my breath could be a luxury I wouldn't have.

Yes, I absolutely learned that being 50' away from my buddy and OOA would not be not first choice. But it was nice to find out I could do it.

 

[jeckyll]

I am one of those who thinks that a greater separation is acceptable in good vis. Don't need to be joined at the hip with my buddy if I am in visual contact with them. .......

....... If you trust your buddy this effectively almost doubles the "wander" distance as they will be coming to you as you go to them.

YMMV and I expect that this topic will generate some "interesting" discussion.

...or you could just stay a touch closer and eliminate the need. Also, I guess checking with your dive buddies as to how close they would like to be would be a good thing, no?

Personally, I'm happy being within 10 - 15 feet of my buddies max, no matter what the viz. We are generally looking for the same types of things, so looking at something while they are taking a picture shouldn't be a big deal.

I dove with someone on the weekend who though anything beyond 5 feet was too far. Viz was actually quite good (30 - 50 feet depending on depth) and still I didn't mind us hanging out very closely. Had great dives and never really had to look for him.

TSnM: I can imagine that you would be stressed. My question to you: If it had been for real, would you have tugged on Peter's sleve or just grabbed the reg out of his mouth? (I'm not sure if you've converted him to a long hose yet).

Anyways, sounds like an interesting test.

 

[TSandM]

Peter's on a 5 foot hose. I wasn't at the reg-grabbing point yet, but I was awfully grateful for air when I got it.

I guess my point in posting the thread is that orchestrated air-sharing drills, where everybody is warned ahead, you position yourself neatly, and drop your reg and signal. are completely artificial. Doing it this way . . . my buddy didn't know I was coming; I didn't stop with lungs full of air; I told myself I could NOT breathe until I got air from my buddy . . . it's a better drill. It tells you things about the way you are diving, and about how you are going to react to a real situation, that you didn't know before.

In a real emergency, in 25 feet of water, with my buddy 20 feet away, I'm going up. But I would STRONGLY prefer that, in ANY water, my buddy isn't 20 feet away and completely concentrated on something else.

 

[rjpv]

How many pulls does one of those little backup bottles give you at depth? Are we talking half a sip of air, half a dozen breaths, enough time for a standard ascent, etc. And let's say "at depth" means 40-80ft-ish.

(Sorry for the newbie question, seemed like a good time to ask it though)

 

[tangfish]

Thanks for bringing this up TSandM. I think we all underestimate the severity of accidents simply because we feel more and more comfortable in the water as we spend more time there. It never hurts to consider another facet of safety.