A question for rescue divers

[D_B]

exaggerated a bit? ... :whatever:
I can understand and agree with his post that ... unconscious is probably not breathing and that your going to have a bunch adrenaline

 

[tomboyy]

Care to share the source of your data?



That is why one gets the training. To try and remain as calm as possible. I think your numbers are exaggerating "a bit" for dramatic effect. 8000 times? Care to share the source of info where they've measured 8000 times more adrenaline than normal?

The first time I got to close to a panicked diver i think my adrenaline shot pass 8000

Aren't ya just nit picking alittle.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

There is also a school of thought that has one doing everything they can to get the vic out of the water first. Getting an airway is often difficult on land for some. If you do indeed start resuce breaths and their mouth is full of water how are you going to get it out even on the surface, turn them over on their side? The two breaths is a good thing I think for the rescuer psychologically. There is some doubt that is does the vic any good. Towing and stripping gear so that EFFECTIVE CPR can begin immediately upon reaching the shore or boat is to me a better idea.

Especially with one rescuer getting help is the first prioity. Two can perhps make it easier to support the vic and give the breaths but you are still not on a solid surface and when trying to get yourself in postion to deliver the breaths it is difficult to do with even slightly turning the vics head which could impede the airway. I do teach the rescue breaths because it is still required but explain my doubts and let the student decide which is best. It's a hard call but in rough condtions or where help is close I'm getting them out first and foremost. I'd like to see a doc wade in on this with some up to date info and recommendations.

Just found this from a 2005 AHA publication:
"Rescue Breathing
The first and most important treatment of the drowning victim is the immediate provision of ventilation. Prompt initiation of rescue breathing increases the victim’s chance of survival.10 Rescue breathing is usually performed when the unresponsive victim is in shallow water or out of the water. If it is difficult for the rescuer to pinch the victim’s nose, support the head, and open the airway in the water, mouth-to-nose ventilation may be used as an alternative to mouth-to-mouth ventilation. Untrained rescuers should not try to provide care while the victim is still in deep water.

Management of the drowning victim’s airway and breathing is similar to that recommended for any victim of cardiopulmonary arrest. There is no need to clear the airway of aspirated water, because only a modest amount of water is aspirated by the majority of drowning victims and it is rapidly absorbed into the central circulation, so it does not act as an obstruction in the trachea.5,11 Some victims aspirate nothing because they develop laryngospasm or breath-holding.5,12 Attempts to remove water from the breathing passages by any means other than suction (eg, abdominal thrusts or the Heimlich maneuver) are unnecessary and potentially dangerous.11 The routine use of abdominal thrusts or the Heimlich maneuver for drowning victims is not recommended."

I highlighted the bold section because I do not believe one rescue course with two or three practice runs consitutes a fully trained and prepared rescuer. THis is something that I think any EMT or Paramedic will tell you needs to be practiced on a regular basis with a discussion of the physiological and psychological effects on the rescuer. I have seen students in rescue classes I assisted with get so ramped up that when the go to deliver the breaths actually drag the vic under the water! In one case it was me. Not fun. The situation has to be able to be handled calmly and with the rescuer under control. I know what the books say and they make it sound easy. But it is not. I still say get the out of the water or at least into shallow water where you can get some stability and better control.

 

[iztok]

iztok,
No one has ever sampled my blood before/during/after a resuscitation. But, speaking from personal experience 8000 may be a BIT of an exaggeration, but not much. My job puts me in situations where I do compressions, give breathes, and place advanced airways. I can say that in an emergency situation, one has to FORCE oneself to stay calm. I have had considerable training in all areas of resuscitation, as well as instruct others in those same areas. So believe us when we say you get "amp'd" up.

A bit? I would say. I've seen numbers saying 10 times but not seen anything close to 8000. I would say if you throw numbers out you should have some backing up for it.

If you say "few times increase" or "large number of unconscious divers" etc... is one thing, but if you are saying 99.99998% you better have some data behind your statement.

Throwing out numbers like you did serves only one purpose, making you look like an expert. I've called you on it and instead of saying you are making stats up you go to personal experience. Personal experience is not an argument either (except for that particular person and particular event).

Hence I am asking for any statistical data to back up your claims.

 

[iztok]

exaggerated a bit? ... :whatever:
I can understand and agree with his post that ... unconscious is probably not breathing and that your going to have a bunch adrenaline

Yup. But to say it is 99.99998% probable? For that statement you better have some way to back it up, otherwise you just show ignorance.

 

[iztok]

The first time I got to close to a panicked diver i think my adrenaline shot pass 8000

Aren't ya just nit picking alittle.

No I am not nitpicking. I just called his bluff.

 

[knotical]

C'mon. We've told you guys a million times not to exaggerate.

 

[tomboyy]

thats funny... alright now boys play nice

 

[travis99]

Nope first rule is, if the victim is not breathing get them to the surface as fast as you can safely. Meaning if you have to bypass the three minute safety stop, bypass it. Get them to the surface then do your ABC's (but save the chest compressions until you make it to land.) Our dive team teaches us that we are to administer rescue breathes all the way back to the shore.

 

[Divor]

C'mon. We've told you guys a million times not to exaggerate.

You better back that up with some sources, fool.