A NEW divers view on GUE Fundamentals

[randytay]

I didn't do the GUE fundies, but I had very similar experience

 

[elan]

Nice writeup thanks a lot for sharing!

The only thing is I would not use DIR term at all as it fairly meaningless and sparks a lot of idiotic fights. We usually just say GUE diving, GUE protocols etc.

 

[lv2dive]

What the course really did was equip me with the knowledge of what it takes to really be a competent diver....<snip>

Now I’ve discussed with Liss what she though could have been done better, and the idea of splitting the course in two came up. Should they teach just the trim/ buoyancy / propulsion in one course, and send you off to do another 30 dives before returning to skill task loading you? Liss thinks so, I’m not sure I agree.

Certainly the skills would have been easier, but what happens to students who never return? Do they go off thinking they are good divers, but never get to practice moving the light to clear the long-hose? I also think that it pushed me in a positive way, so that when it finally started to come together, it came together as a more holistic system.

I can see now the attraction of Primer, where there is no pass mark. But either course will have you leaving a much better diver than when you started. Experienced divers learn from the course, for a novice like me, I learnt an incredible amount....<snip>

Anyway. My Fundies experience was extremely challenging, kicked my ass from here to Sunday, totally reset my understanding of diving standards, and has made me a far safer and responsible diver. Would I recommend it for a new diver? Absolutely.

I absolutely loved your whole writeup. Thanks for putting us right there with you! It sounds like the experience met or exceeded your expectations, and that you had a great instructor to work with you along the way.

As to your point/question regarding Primer before Fundies. Recently I've participated in (video'ed) a Primer class that included two very experienced divers who were both planning on moving forward to take Fundies. These two divers were both full cave and each had some mix training, as well as varying levels of exposure to DIR diving. Some people questioned at least one of the student's reasoning behind taking Primer. I didn't. Taking Primer stacked the deck in these divers' favor. The more they worked through prior to Fundies, the more they would learn IN Fundies. At some point during Fundamentals, even the most experienced divers can reach a saturation point. If some of the learning occurs prior to the Fundies class, then the student can go absorb that much more in the Fundamentals class - whether it is fine-tuning skills or learning brand new ones.

So I heartily recommend Primer, unless someone has been actively mentored by individuals who definitely know what they are doing, or by the GUE community such as they have in the Pacific NW. The two I was referencing above did not NEED Primer by any means, but they both agreed they were glad they took it. For new divers, or "new to GUE" divers, the exposure to the propulsion techniques and buoyancy/trim concepts taught in Primer, allows for refinement of those skills in Fundies as well as bandwidth for new skill acquisition. Of course I would not go so far as to say it people can't have a great experience going straight to Fundies - look to this class report as an example! But I do think as a general rule, if it's possible from a time and money perspective, Primer should be considered, if at all possible.

Anyway, thanks again for the fabulous class report. I do think a lot of people (more than is understood) take classes like Primer, Essentials, and Fundies to become better recreational divers. I know that was my motivation*.


OBTW - Did you mention who your instructor was, and I missed it? If not, consider giving him/her some good press!

Kate






*Please ignore the fact that there may be a slight delta between what initially motivated me and the path I ended up taking.

 

[Griffo]

Nice writeup thanks a lot for sharing!

The only thing is I would not use DIR term at all as it fairly meaningless and sparks a lot of idiotic fights. We usually just say GUE diving, GUE protocols etc.

I did try not to, apart from referring to it's use on Scubaboard. What I really need to practice is calling it "Gee You Eee" rather than "Gooey".

I absolutely loved your whole writeup. Thanks for putting us right there with you! It sounds like the experience met or exceeded your expectations, and that you had a great instructor to work with you along the way.

It was very different to what I was expecting. I was expecting to have to learn a larger number of skills through the course. What I didn't realise is just how hard I would have to work at each one, despite Nick only holding us to newbie standards

As to your point/question regarding Primer before Fundies. Recently I've participated in (video'ed) a Primer class that included two very experienced divers who were both planning on moving forward to take Fundies. These two divers were both full cave and each had some mix training, as well as varying levels of exposure to DIR diving. Some people questioned at least one of the student's reasoning behind taking Primer. I didn't. Taking Primer stacked the deck in these divers' favor. The more they worked through prior to Fundies, the more they would learn IN Fundies. At some point during Fundamentals, even the most experienced divers can reach a saturation point. If some of the learning occurs prior to the Fundies class, then the student can go absorb that much more in the Fundamentals class - whether it is fine-tuning skills or learning brand new ones.

So I heartily recommend Primer, unless someone has been actively mentored by individuals who definitely know what they are doing, or by the GUE community such as they have in the Pacific NW. The two I was referencing above did not NEED Primer by any means, but they both agreed they were glad they took it. For new divers, or "new to GUE" divers, the exposure to the propulsion techniques and buoyancy/trim concepts taught in Primer, allows for refinement of those skills in Fundies as well as bandwidth for new skill acquisition. Of course I would not go so far as to say it people can't have a great experience going straight to Fundies - look to this class report as an example! But I do think as a general rule, if it's possible from a time and money perspective, Primer should be considered, if at all possible.

I'm looking forward to doing a lot of diving with some local GUE divers, and hopefully some social diving with my instructor. I expect that i'll learn a lot more that way. I actually think i'd learn a lot more if I went back in 12 months and re-did fundies, but maybe i'll get that as a side effect of diving with other GUE minded folk.

Anyway, thanks again for the fabulous class report. I do think a lot of people (more than is understood) take classes like Primer, Essentials, and Fundies to become better recreational divers. I know that was my motivation*.


OBTW - Did you mention who your instructor was, and I missed it? If not, consider giving him/her some good press!

Kate

*Please ignore the fact that there may be a slight delta between what initially motivated me and the path I ended up taking.

I'm glad you like my little story

I didn't name my him initially, as I was worried that I may have mis-interpreted something from the class. This place can be rather brutal at times But yeah, my intructor was Nick Schoeffler. One of the worlds truly nice people.

On another point, while I do want to get into technical diving (I long to dive the WWII wrecks before they all rust away) the Fiance is definately a rec only diver - athough I notice that she did start to get interested when I showed her pics of Bon Terre and that missile silo. But she found it just as educational. We were both inspired by the way Nick could hover around us with the camera with no apparent effort. If I ever achieve that level of buoyancy control, i'll be a happy man

 

[Maples]

Did you have to change your whole kit over to something DIR approved before he would teach you? There is some of this stuff I would love to learn, I already own a dive rite transpac but reading the blurb on the GUE website that wouldn't be acceptable, nor would my gauge configuration or my torches, or my knife, or my hoses....

Wish there was a happy medium between the seemingly militant requirements of GUE and the certification factories at basic rec level.

 

[TSandM]

Nick is a very nice man -- I had the pleasure of his company at dinner a couple of years ago, when he was visiting Seattle. Lucky you!

 

[Griffo]

Did you have to change your whole kit over to something DIR approved before he would teach you? There is some of this stuff I would love to learn, I already own a dive rite transpac but reading the blurb on the GUE website that wouldn't be acceptable, nor would my gauge configuration or my torches, or my knife, or my hoses....

Wish there was a happy medium between the seemingly militant requirements of GUE and the certification factories at basic rec level.

I changed all our gear over to compatible gear before the course because I wanted to. I had two main reasons, firstly that the system made a lot of sense to me. My Fiances "incident" was partly caused by poor gear choices (as well as her useless dive buddy, diving beyond skills etc) and here we were going off making the same mistakes again.
Secondly, we never felt comfortable diving in jackets in cold water. They felt fine in warm water, but we both felt very constricted and immediately noticed the difference in a BP/W

Also, in a way that can't be explained very well, it becomes obvious that the gear is part of the system. The GUE system is about team diving, and part of that is about being in the same gear setup, not only because of familiarity but because it makes all the skills identical between the divers. I had read this a multitude of times, but it didn't really click until the course.

I believe UTD do an essentials course that can be done in just about anything as long as you have a long hose. But that's all I know about it.
Also, it wasn't that expensive really. I mean, i went overboard (as I do) but a couple of Black Friday sales at dive gear express had me 90% kitted out for less than I paid for my Nitrox course.

Nick is a very nice man -- I had the pleasure of his company at dinner a couple of years ago, when he was visiting Seattle. Lucky you!

I am extremely lucky. We are flying to Sydney in 2 weeks with Nick (weather holding) and Liam Allen was talking about joining us for some dives. Talk about pressure! ;-) Diving with a GUE Instructor Examiner when i'm fresh out of kindy.

 

[TSandM]

Wish there was a happy medium between the seemingly militant requirements of GUE and the certification factories at basic rec level.

Maples, the "militant" requirements of GUE are because GUE isn't just teaching diving skills -- they are teaching a diving SYSTEM, and that system has as one of its foundations a high degree of standardization, whether that's gear, procedures, gases, signals or whatever.

UTD has more relaxed gear requirements, but is still a system.

If all you want is to polish your buoyancy or learn some kicks, a cavern class might be an option for you, or an Intro to Tech from someone who will teach it in a single tank configuration.

 

[Maples]

Thanks for the info, I have been considering an intro to tech class. I will look into this further.

 

[Jaydubya]

I absolutely loved your whole writeup. Thanks for putting us right there with you! It sounds like the experience met or exceeded your expectations, and that you had a great instructor to work with you along the way.

As to your point/question regarding Primer before Fundies. Recently I've participated in (video'ed) a Primer class that included two very experienced divers who were both planning on moving forward to take Fundies. These two divers were both full cave and each had some mix training, as well as varying levels of exposure to DIR diving. Some people questioned at least one of the student's reasoning behind taking Primer. I didn't. Taking Primer stacked the deck in these divers' favor. The more they worked through prior to Fundies, the more they would learn IN Fundies. At some point during Fundamentals, even the most experienced divers can reach a saturation point. If some of the learning occurs prior to the Fundies class, then the student can go absorb that much more in the Fundamentals class - whether it is fine-tuning skills or learning brand new ones.

So I heartily recommend Primer, unless someone has been actively mentored by individuals who definitely know what they are doing, or by the GUE community such as they have in the Pacific NW. The two I was referencing above did not NEED Primer by any means, but they both agreed they were glad they took it. For new divers, or "new to GUE" divers, the exposure to the propulsion techniques and buoyancy/trim concepts taught in Primer, allows for refinement of those skills in Fundies as well as bandwidth for new skill acquisition. Of course I would not go so far as to say it people can't have a great experience going straight to Fundies - look to this class report as an example! But I do think as a general rule, if it's possible from a time and money perspective, Primer should be considered, if at all possible.

Anyway, thanks again for the fabulous class report. I do think a lot of people (more than is understood) take classes like Primer, Essentials, and Fundies to become better recreational divers. I know that was my motivation*.


OBTW - Did you mention who your instructor was, and I missed it? If not, consider giving him/her some good press!

Kate






*Please ignore the fact that there may be a slight delta between what initially motivated me and the path I ended up taking.

I was one of the full cave/trimix divers that Kate mentioned. I wasn't planning to take Primer but the other diver needed a team mate in order to make the class go, so I agreed to do it. I'm glad I did. I thought it was extremely valuable to take the class and it undoubtedly helped me pass Fundamentals on the first attempt. If I had it to do over again, I would leave some time between Primer and Fundamentals in order to sharpen some of the skills between classes.