A DM without insurance

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NAUI calls it "sustaining" status, as opposed to active.
 
So being a DM is like being a police officer,your ALWAYS on duty.:confused:

Would seem to me that if you had the insta-buddy and something happened that as a good buddy you would try to help and do whatever you could. With you not teaching,leading or supervising that said buddy i don't really see how you could be held responsible just because your a DM.

I'm not saying you would actually be FOUND to be responsible, but rather that someone could sue you.

From what I understand the finding of the case would actually help you from an insurance standpoint. ie: If the court found you were responsibile because the found you were somehow acting as a DM you would have been found to have been acting within your DM responsibilities in supervising a certified diver. If that's the case your insurance would cover you, since it covers you when you are assisting in a class or supervising trained divers.
 
I just joined the forum having signed up for PADI DM course. I had looked at doing DM "for my own knowledge" before, but the collapse of the economy sees me doing it so I can make some REAL money. Ha Ha. This liability question has been discussed to death on several forums. I'm no lawyer. An analogy: I taught school Band for 25 years and we did many Band Tours when I, as the teacher, was responsible for what happened to the kids. After retirement, I "chaparoned" such trips--A situation in which I was not responsible in the same sense as when I was the teacher. Now, if something bad happened to a kid and I took action which had poor results, I may well have been legally responsible. Now, if I become a DM and go on a holiday I could simply give the dive op a different c-card so they would not know I was a DM. Or, I could tell them I'm a DM but don't want to act in the capacity as one, as I am on vacation (and ask them not to tell the other divers I am a DM). Now, if something happened necessitating a rescue, I would, of course, morally feel obliged to help (much like a Doctor witnessing an accident--and we've seen that due to malpractice suites, som doctors actually would let the person die). But I guess a lawsuit could happen anyway even if you weren't a DM and offered help (ei.: Rescue Diver-all the training, no insurance). Glad I'm in Canada anyway, as it's real hard to sue for medical reasons, as most of it's covered by our excessive taxes.
 
I'm not saying you would actually be FOUND to be responsible, but rather that someone could sue you.

Someone could sue you whether you are a DM or not.
 
Now, if I become a DM and go on a holiday I could simply give the dive op a different c-card so they would not know I was a DM. Or, I could tell them I'm a DM but don't want to act in the capacity as one, as I am on vacation (and ask them not to tell the other divers I am a DM). Now, if something happened necessitating a rescue, I would, of course, morally feel obliged to help (much like a Doctor witnessing an accident--and we've seen that due to malpractice suites, som doctors actually would let the person die). But I guess a lawsuit could happen anyway even if you weren't a DM and offered help (ei.: Rescue Diver-all the training, no insurance). Glad I'm in Canada anyway, as it's real hard to sue for medical reasons, as most of it's covered by our excessive taxes.

Keep in mind that while not revealing your status as a DM might keep you out of situations where you are in some supervisory role, it does not necessarily shield you from being held to a higher standard should something happen. The lawyers would surely find out about your certification.
 
Keep in mind that while not revealing your status as a DM might keep you out of situations where you are in some supervisory role, it does not necessarily shield you from being held to a higher standard should something happen. The lawyers would surely find out about your certification.

Whether I reveal my instructor status or not, if I'm on a pleasure trip. I will NOT be in a supervisory role unless I'm being paid. Whether or not I'll accept an insta-buddy depends or whether or not we get along on the boat ride out. I prefer to act relatively new, insist on going over a plan, doing the buddy checks, etc. If they are too good of a diver to humor me or tell me not to worry, they'll take care of me. I'll start searching for a different buddy.
 
My piont was that, in the event of a lawsuit, your certification level would surely be revealed during the discovery process. You might then be subject to increased liability regardless of how others perceived you at the time of the incident. Sorry if I wasn't clear. Any attorneys or insurance experts please feel free to correct me on this is I am wrong.
 
It all comes down to standard/duty of care (I think that is the proper phrase). As a divemaster, if someone pays you for your divemaster services (or your provide them for free), then you are providing a certain duty of care to that person.

If you are not acting as a divemaster with your buddy (namely, s/he didn't hire you), then you don't owe him/her any duty of care.

Now you could be sued as the "more experienced diver since you had the divemaster training, which also teaches you more rescue" side of things.

Back to the OP, with PADI, I think the phrase is "active, insured DM/AI/Instructor". If you are active and insured, then you can do the roles of a divemaster since you have paid your dues and have valid insurance on file with PADI. If either the "active" or "insured" isn't valid, then you techincally are not a divemaster.
 
Back to the OP, with PADI, I think the phrase is "active, insured DM/AI/Instructor". If you are active and insured, then you can do the roles of a divemaster since you have paid your dues and have valid insurance on file with PADI. If either the "active" or "insured" isn't valid, then you techincally are not a divemaster.


It is recommended that divemasters
involved in training or supervising activities
carry liability insurance. Requirements may​
vary from one PADI Office to another.
 
I know instructors that don't advertise as such when on vacation dives. Imagine that Frankenstein, a PADI course instructor hands Captain Wolfman his Rescue certification card when checking in to the resort. That allows him to dive most sites, and remain off the radar.

How would the Lawyer Dracula, then know to sue Frankenstein? He is only known as rescue diver Frankenstein, and not as course director Frankenstein. He was also diving as a customer, NOT a paid pro.

IMO a non-paid pro has no more liability towards a diver than a non-paid anybody. Sure they can attempt to use their skills, but hardly the same thing as if they were hired to train the diver. A truck driver certainly has no additional liability for a car accident than anyone else when he is driving a personal vehicle. Why would this be different for a dive pro?
 

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