A Different Perspective on Safe Diving

[kombiguy]

I wasn't arguing for or against solo diving. I was merely pointing out that a buddy doesn't always make you safer, and that any reliance on a buddy can result in complacency, or worse, overconfidence in assessing risks. That was the point of my final sentence.

 

[bowlofpetunias]

You are right in terms of the quality of the buddy. The OP also referred to having a quality buddy. I have refused to be paired with divers I felt were unsafe buddies. My choice in those situations is to sit out the dive. I do not have the equipment to solo dive. My regular dive partner and life partner is not comfortable with me going solo. No dive is worth stressing my husband. I would rather dive with him if possible if not a competent buddy who takes being a buddy seriously!

 

[RJP]

Take, for example, a diver who has dived all over the world, in many different conditions, and has strong record of continuing education. On a dive boat, he may be paired with a buddy that is a newly certified open water diver. That results in an unsafe buddy pair. The more experienced diver is going to get frustrated having to “throttle back” to accommodate the newer diver, and the newer diver will be anxious that he is impeding the dive for the more experienced diver. These stressors degrade any safety margin allegedly provided by a buddy.

I think someone might be projecting here.

I fit your description of the experienced diver above and I can't even begin to imagine what you mean by needing to "throttle back" if I was paired with a newly certified diver.(Other than the likely scenario that the new diver will go through gas faster than I will.) Further, I can't imagine saying or doing anything that would make that newly certified diver anxious or in anyway convey that their presence was "impeding" my dive experience... largely because it wouldn't.

If there is any merit to your contention that such a buddy pair is "unsafe" due to "stressors" much of the blame for that needs to be laid squarely at the feet of the more experienced diver. Perhaps they forgot that they were a new diver once? Or maybe they were born as an instructor with 1,000-2,499 logged dives? Or they are just the type that stamp their feet and piss and moan to everyone within ear-shot about every perceived slight, including the egregious affront to their full-throttle dive style that a less-experienced dive buddy might present.

It's interesting to note that all the really good solo divers I know tend to make really good, considerate dive buddies. However, all the divers that I know that are really poor, inconsiderate dive buddies... seem to end up doing most of their diving [-]solo[/-] by themselves.

Funny how that works out, huh?

 

[kevindsingleton]

I think I understand what Kombi is trying to say by "throttling back" to accommodate a less-experienced diver. One of the reasons I took the PADI Rescue course was so that I would be better-equipped to recognize and deal with stressful situations during a dive trip, not necessarily just in the water. I've lead dives with newly-certified OW divers, and assisted with many OW and AOW classes (as an observer and "cat herder"), and I've never found diving with someone less experienced to be any sort of hindrance. On the contrary, I enjoy the wide-eyed wonder and excitement of a new diver enjoying some of the "firsts" that go along with those early experiences, the most recent being my wife, just after she completed her OW checkout dives. We were in a shallow, murky quarry, with limited visibility, trying to maintain buoyancy and getting her comfortable in her gear. I turned to check that she was ok, and she pointed behind me. Suddenly, we were completely engulfed in a school of bluegills (a little too small for eatin'). Her whole face was smiling. That's the look I'm talking about. If you are the type of diver who feels held back by being paired with someone new to the sport, please speak up, and let everyone in the group know. Some of us might be happy to take the noob off your hands.

 

[bowlofpetunias]

There are new and inexperienced divers I would dive with in a heartbeat... it depends on attitude and of course the dive conditions. There are experienced dive instructors I wouldn't dive with for any money... it depends on attitude. I guess the attitude I am talking about is Death's DM.. complacency!

I have had the unfortunate experience of having someone diving with us die. That is an experience I never want to go through again for any reason.

That is what was in my mind when I was doing a boat dive in Florida with Netdoc and were two other divers on the boat. They were a husband and wife team. They didn't listen or follow the directions of the DM on the boat. At one point I wasn't sure they would be able to get her on the boat without significant injuries. The DM clearly shared my alarm. By a miracle she managed to reboard the boat.

Netdoc was having some congestion issues and had to sit out the second dive. I decided to sit out the dive too. No way I was going in the water with those two. They were adults who could chose for themselves. Conditions were far from calm and that couple IMHO did not belong in those conditions. They surfaced in fairly big waves and having been told to leave mask on and reg in till they were on board.

The surfaced and took both off. They were getting washed around, waves going over their heads, DM calling from the boat to inflate and get the reg in ,,, get the mask on, DM on the boat telling them not to float face down near the back of the boat but to watch the boat. Boat was rising and falling 6 feet on the waves. It was a disaster and one I was glad I wasn't in the middle of. As it was I was honestly expecting to be dealing with a crushed skull or trying to resuscitate a drowning victim. Death must have been staring in such stunned disbelief that he forgot to grab one of the other of them.

 

[kombiguy]

I think someone might be projecting here.

I fit your description of the experienced diver above and I can't even begin to imagine what you mean by needing to "throttle back" if I was paired with a newly certified diver.(Other than the likely scenario that the new diver will go through gas faster than I will.) Further, I can't imagine saying or doing anything that would make that newly certified diver anxious or in anyway convey that their presence was "impeding" my dive experience... largely because it wouldn't.

If there is any merit to your contention that such a buddy pair is "unsafe" due to "stressors" much of the blame for that needs to be laid squarely at the feet of the more experienced diver. Perhaps they forgot that they were new divers once? Or maybe they were born as an instructor with 1,000-2,499 logged dives? Or they are just the type that stamp their feet and piss and moan to everyone within ear-shot about every perceived slight, including the egregious affront to their full-throttle dive style that a less-experienced dive buddy might present.

It's interesting to note that all the really good solo divers I know tend to make really good, considerate dive buddies. However, all the divers that I know that make really poor, inconsiderate buddies... seem to end up doing most of their diving [-]solo[/-] by themselves.

Funny how that works out, huh?

You assume a great deal. I may or may not be projecting, but unless you come down to America's Riviera, you'll never know. I have always tried to be considerate of those less experienced, and even try to pass on a nugget or two of knowledge, even when not formally instructing, because I do remember my beginnings.
I don't, however, assume that every author that describes anything is actually describing himself. (or herself, as the case may be) That would be really projecting!
Funny how that works out, huh?

 

[bowlofpetunias]

Yes this is a great resource to share experience and knowledge but in the print we can never guarantee that people will interpret what we say the way we mean it. It is worth the effort to keep trying tho

---------- Post added October 2nd, 2015 at 11:39 PM ----------

Late in Oz my medication is kicking in and I am off to bed before I really stick my foot in something! Keep safe and keep blowing bubbles.

 

[Lorenzoid]

Any buddy is not safer than no buddy.

When I read the original piece I immediately knew someone was sure to jump on the author's emphasis on the buddy system. As I interpreted it, the author isn't saying that the buddy system is the only system, but rather that for a diver who chooses the buddy system, "any number of issues that will kill you if you are alone can be easily survivable in the close company of a buddy, period." I didn't read it as excluding alternatives, such as a solo diving system. Indeed, in a later post the author mentions he's a trained solo diver.

 

[glassbottom]

There are probably 20 year-old instructors out there who parrot the party line about how what they are doing could kill them and how seriously they take it. But do they really BELIEVE they could die? That THEY could die--not someone else. I am not so sure.

I definitely agree, namely relating from personal experience. Im not sure when in my 20's this transition from feigning the understanding of death occurred but it definitely did by the time I was 30. But maybe that is the entire nature of it, there isn't a hard stop where we recognize our mortality, its a gradual process as you mature. And who knows I could be looking back at 50 thinking how stupid I was at 30 for all I know.

However it got me thinking back to when I was younger, not only with Scuba (which I started at 15), but in other facets of life, and it still amazes me how stupid and reckless I was at the time.

Then again I see others my age, especially in scuba, and their recklessness reminds me of myself at a younger age in many cases. So I suppose it has less to do with age in the strictest sense, but more in maturity of the individual. Granted I have seen more death than some at my age, burying my father at 24 and dealing with his estate alone was a bit of an eye opener.

 

[Lorenzoid]

Thanks, glassbottom. Not to repeat myself, but what I see as sort of insidious about a young diver's understanding of death and their own mortality is that many of them are not outwardly reckless at all. Some, such as the cave divers, take it extremely seriously and will tell you all about the dangers. But as I said, even as seriously as their words and actions show they take it, I have to wonder how many of them view their own mortality the same way a geezer like me does? Despite everything, are they looking at it through a different filter--the unshakable filter of youth?