A couple of ?? about my new Halcyon Rig

[BigJoshCRNA]

I am planning on taking the Fundies class in Bonaire in Dec. and I have read the fundamentals of better diving book. For the next year or so I will only be doing rec diving and have not yet made plans to technical dive, however, I would like to dive with the correct DIR configuration. I have just bought my new Halcyon backplate and 30lb wing and have a couple of questions.

1. If additional weight is needed, should I use the weight pockets or dive with a weight belt? Are trim pockets appropriate for the tank straps?

2. Is the crotch strap necessary? I am only asking because if the a weight belt is used, I can imagine it being harder to get off if wearing a crotch strap. I do not use a scooter...yet

3. I am not going to be diving with a canister light, so How do I anchor my long hose on the right side? I considered putting my knife on that side, but I see it on the left side in all configurations. Do I just tuck it into the waist strap?

Thanks for all the help folks!

 

[Rainer]

1. If additional weight is needed, should I use the weight pockets or dive with a weight belt? Are trim pockets appropriate for the tank straps?

I personally use a weight belt. Weight pockets on the harness seem a mess. Dropping a few pounds in weight pouches on the cam straps is fine, too. A belt is easiest and cheapest.

2. Is the crotch strap necessary? I am only asking because if the a weight belt is used, I can imagine it being harder to get off if wearing a crotch strap. I do not use a scooter...yet

Yes, use it. First, it'll keep the entire rig more secure UW. Second, it keeps the rig from riding up and potentially pushing you a bit forward at the surface. Third, it gives you an extra d-ring on your ass for a reel/etc. Fourth, you never know when someone might let you ride his scooter. What's your worry about ditching a weight belt? I assure you, undoing the crotch strap at the surface so you can undo the weight belt is not a big deal. Practice a few times and you'll be good to go.

3. I am not going to be diving with a canister light, so How do I anchor my long hose on the right side? I considered putting my knife on that side, but I see it on the left side in all configurations. Do I just tuck it into the waist strap?

You have several options. First, you can just tuck the hose into the waist strap (right side). Second, you can place something on the right side under which you route the hose. I personally like a pair of shears in a sheath if I don't have my can light. It's a good hold, and adds a nice cutting device. You can add a second knife in sheath there instead if you'd rather. Some people use a pocket. I find that a bit messy, but it works. Tobin at DSS makes a "can light simulator" that also works nicely (my wife used one in her OW class).

Good luck!

 

[Goindrinkn]

1. You can use either. And Trim weight is fine as well. Really this brings up a bigger question - are you comfortable diving with little or no ditchable weight? In my fundies class I and my buddy ended up removing our weightbelts and moving the weight to trim pockets. Since this we just a few lbs, and we were not over weighted, this was not an issue. (I'm talking 4 and 6 lbs.) We could both easily swim our rigs up, and could easily bring up the other diver in the event of an emergency.

2. If yo are going by the book, I think you'll find that it is part of the DIR configuration, You can use a weightbelt with it, and yes there is a bit more to getting it free if it is inside of the crotch strap. If you move to trim pockets or weight pockets it is not an issue. Since you are planning on taking fundies, I'd say get used to it. It does help keep the plate where it belongs and becomes part of your over all trim.

3. You can tuck the extra inside of the webbing, however it does become a bit more to handle. An often suggested item is a mask pocket. (you can find them for 12-15 dollars usually) This allows you to tuck the hose under the pocket and get a similar effect.

 

[GShockey]

Looks like you are taking a class with Benji! Excellent! He is one of the nicest guys you will ever meet and is a very thorough and thoughtful instructor. I have had the pleasure of diving with Benji in multiple locations several times. You are in for a real treat. Since you will be training with him the best thing you can do for yourself at this point is contact him directly and ask him any questions you have. Then when you get to Bonaire, make sure to ask him the "why" to each answer. He will provide you with well thought out answers and introduce you to the rationale behind why we dive the way we do in a manner that is much easier to understand than over the internet. If you buy him a hamburger for lunch you will get lots more information

When you are in Bonaire, with a 3mm suit, and an Al 80 tank, you will require no more weight than your backplate. You will not need a weightbelt or weight pockets. The other posters above have pointed out some useful approaches to single tank diving and weighting but I highly suggest you ask Benji as well. Part of your class will be a section on discussing proper weighting and balancing your gear set up and the principles behind balancing your weighting. You will find all your questions answered there, and if not, just ask Benji.

Good luck. You are going to have a great time with a terrific ambassador for GUE. And a guy who loves hamburgers.

best,

Guy

 

[TSandM]

First off, congratulations on making this decision!

With regards to weight: You need to carry what you need to carry to be properly weighted. This means the ability to hold a stop at the end of the dive, with your tanks drawn down to the maximum you would tolerate them getting to. That amount determines your total weight.

WHERE you put the weight depends on two things: The configuration of your rig, and your static balance. Since we sit in the water with nothing off which to support ourselves, we are dependent on the distribution of weight and lift in our rigs to allow us to remain horizontal and motionless. Posture can fine-tune this, but it can only compensate so far. So, if you assume the general horizontal, flat posture with bent knees, and see what happens when you stop finning, you'll get an idea of where to move your weight. Frequently, that means moving it up onto your back, which reduces your ditchable weight.

For single tanks, that's rarely a big issue, unless you are intent upon deep diving in thick neoprene. In an HP130, properly weighted, you descend about 9 lbs negative, and most people can swim that up from depth. If you add a 7 mm Farmer John to that, you're now 30 lbs negative, and that's a problem. The solution is generally held not to be ditchable weight, however, but redundant lift -- because if you ditch weight at depth, you have no control shallow. (The real answer is don't do deep dives in thick neoprene!)

So, since you aren't really planning on ditching your weight belt anywhere but at the surface, having it under the crotch strap isn't really a big issue. You CAN wear it outside -- it's just a little harder to put on that way -- but it really shouldn't be necessary. The only time you are going to ditch weight is on the surface, and on the surface in thick neoprene, you open your waist belt, drop your crotch strap, and drop the weight belt. Remember, in the DIR system, your buddy is right there to help you stay buoyant until you can get those things done.

So: Proper weighting; rational exposure protection for your environment; and distribute the weight so it makes proper trim easy. Then solve the balanced rig issues, if any, that occur after you have answered the first three questions.

 

[Scott L]

Definatly more expensive than a weight belt but Halcyon's ACB system is a clean solution to the problem. Trim pockets are generally only used with AL cylinders.


Weighting | Extreme Exposure

 

[BigJoshCRNA]

1. You can use either. And Trim weight is fine as well. Really this brings up a bigger question - are you comfortable diving with little or no ditchable weight?

In a lot of the reports I have read about diver fatalities, a common thread is that a lot of people don't ditch their weights. I am just having a hard time getting used to the idea of diving with no ditchable weight. My setup came with the ACB system and the adapter weight, so I have either of those as an option. I am going to the pool in the morning to try out the weight belt, the acb, and the trim pockets to see what makes it easiest to stay horizontal.

 

[BigJoshCRNA]

First off, congratulations on making this decision!

With regards to weight: You need to carry what you need to carry to be properly weighted. This means the ability to hold a stop at the end of the dive, with your tanks drawn down to the maximum you would tolerate them getting to. That amount determines your total weight.

WHERE you put the weight depends on two things: The configuration of your rig, and your static balance. Since we sit in the water with nothing off which to support ourselves, we are dependent on the distribution of weight and lift in our rigs to allow us to remain horizontal and motionless. Posture can fine-tune this, but it can only compensate so far. So, if you assume the general horizontal, flat posture with bent knees, and see what happens when you stop finning, you'll get an idea of where to move your weight. Frequently, that means moving it up onto your back, which reduces your ditchable weight.

For single tanks, that's rarely a big issue, unless you are intent upon deep diving in thick neoprene. In an HP130, properly weighted, you descend about 9 lbs negative, and most people can swim that up from depth. If you add a 7 mm Farmer John to that, you're now 30 lbs negative, and that's a problem. The solution is generally held not to be ditchable weight, however, but redundant lift -- because if you ditch weight at depth, you have no control shallow. (The real answer is don't do deep dives in thick neoprene!)

So, since you aren't really planning on ditching your weight belt anywhere but at the surface, having it under the crotch strap isn't really a big issue. You CAN wear it outside -- it's just a little harder to put on that way -- but it really shouldn't be necessary. The only time you are going to ditch weight is on the surface, and on the surface in thick neoprene, you open your waist belt, drop your crotch strap, and drop the weight belt. Remember, in the DIR system, your buddy is right there to help you stay buoyant until you can get those things done.

So: Proper weighting; rational exposure protection for your environment; and distribute the weight so it makes proper trim easy. Then solve the balanced rig issues, if any, that occur after you have answered the first three questions.

In all of my posts in this forum, you have always given such great answers...thank you so much! I would love to come and dive with you some day...maybe after my fundies class

 

[Ben_ca]

Despite having a big H on them many view the ACB as being not DIR.

As far as ditching weights the DIR answer is to dive a balanced rig. Loosing you weights and blowing past your stops is a bigger concern than "Pulling the eject handle and hoping for the best".

Jot down these questions and ask your Fundies instructor. I'm sure the concepts of "proper weighting" and "Diving a Balanced Rig" will cover these during the lecture.

 

[BigJoshCRNA]

Despite having a big H on them many view the ACB as being not DIR.

As far as ditching weights the DIR answer is to dive a balanced rig. Loosing you weights and blowing past your stops is a bigger concern than "Pulling the eject handle and hoping for the best".

Jot down these questions and ask your Fundies instructor. I'm sure the concepts of "proper weighting" and "Diving a Balanced Rig" will cover these during the lecture.

My main concern is having ditchable weights at the surface. All the diving I have planned is open water, but I'm sure as my skills improve my fear of not having ditchable weight will decrease. Having proper buoyancy and trim are my main goal.