A Better Octopus: discussion

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mddolson

Contributor
Scuba Instructor
Messages
1,469
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Location
Belleville,Ontario, Canada
# of dives
1000 - 2499
As an instructor I spend a lot of time with students in confined and open water environments, training the use of the alternate air source second stage or octopus, as it's commonly known. The most common position for the octopus is on the owner's right, attached at the front in the inverted triangle formed between the neck and waist. This position makes it available to the owner in the event of a primary second stage failure or malfunction. The problem with this location is it does not make presenting the second stage to the buddy very ergonomic. You have to grab the hose, and twist it around 180° to present the mouth piece right side up to the diver in need.

Too many times, I’ve seen the octopus presented upside down and the would be diver in need gets a mouth full of water, because it won't clear up side down. Sure when you, show them the correct way (again) they get it right, but what happens in a real stress situation? More often than not if it's not simple or a natural motion, it's done wrong. We can respond with more training, drills etc, but this is one area where the technology has all ready solved the problem.

The solution is a side port second stage, similar to the old Cyklon, by Poseidon or Oceanic Omega. This style of regulator is not common in the sport industry in North America, but it should be. All manufactures should be producing a side port regulator as standard for the octopus. Think about it. This second stage doesn't care which side the supply hose is on. This second stage doesn't have an upside down, you just put it in your mouth and exhale, and it clears. What's wrong with this picture? Cost. The fact is, most of us already have an octopus, and most manufacturers bundle their own equipment with their own version of an octopus, either with a change in color, or their own low profile design. I'm guilty of this too; I don't have a Poseidon style second stage on any of my 3 regulators (pool set, open water set, or backup o/w). At approximately $100 - $150 per set up that's a hefty upgrade, especially when it will obsolete 3, second stages.

Now if manufacturers all standardized on one design (THE OCTOPUS) then there would be plenty of volume to justify the added tooling to produce it, and the price would be lower, and they could be offered to the existing industry at a discount for up grades. (Make it fit standard 2nd stage hoses, so we don't need to buy new ones with it). Make it available on a cost plus shipping to instructors, AI's, DM's, rental shops etc. This would promote the change over in the industry quickly; existing second stages would be turned in for use as primary second stage in rental or instructional gear. There are lots of possible ways to go about it.

Mike D
:blfish:
 
Donate your primary, have your backup bungeed under your neck.

Nothing dragging through the silt, the OOA diver is *guaranteed* to get a working regulator and the diver will always test the backup before the dive because that's *their* air if they give up their primary.

Of course the mainstream agencies teach the inefficient, less safe and less reliable method of donating an “octo”, so mainstream instructors get the heebie-jeebies when you mention it.

Roak
 
What I don't like about the side exhaust is that it's impossible to clear unless you tilt your head towards the side where the purge is.

I agree with Roak. Donating the primary on a long hose and going to a bungeed backup is a far better and more elegant solution to the problem you present. Switching the octo to a side exhaust just introduces more problems and doesn't address the real problems of having a stowed "octo."
 
Bob3 once bubbled...


DANG! never noticed that on any of my Cyklons.

Well I noticed it on the Odin. It wouldn't clear unless my head was slightly tilted towards the exhaust. With my head tilted the other way for any reason, it simply filled with more water when purged.

Maybe the reg was bad or something, but that was my experience.
 
Just incase you didn't notice,
this has nothing to do with donating the primary or secondary.

Whether you donate the primary or the secodary it is still possible to present the 2nd stage upside down.

"That's what the discussion is about!"

Mike D

:blfish:
 
I use an Oceanic Omega II for a secondary (it was my primary, until I purchased a new reg), I have had no problems clearing it, and there is no top/bottom as it works from either direction. Now, it is not as nice as the DS4/TX50 for breathing and adjustment, but you don't have to do anything but put it in your mouth and breathe, and it has a good purge, on a yellow hose. Works for me.
 
mddolson once bubbled...
Just incase you didn't notice,
this has nothing to do with donating the primary or secondary.

Whether you donate the primary or the secodary it is still possible to present the 2nd stage upside down.

"That's what the discussion is about!"

Mike D

:blfish:

Using a long hose eliminates all the problems of the standard "octopus" setup, including how the reg is presented. Since you grab the regulator out of your own mouth and present it to the OOA diver, it's basically impossible for it to be given upside down.

Simply asking all manufacturers to produce nothing but side-exhaust octos does nothing to solve the problems associated with air sharing. The long hose *does*, and it's better, side exhaust or not.
 
I disagree.

jonnythan bubbled
: "Using a long hose eliminates all the problems of the standard "octopus" setup, including how the reg is presented. Since you grab the regulator out of your own mouth and present it to the OOA diver, it's basically impossible for it to be given upside down."

It is not impossible and I've seen it done.
I use and breath the long hose when I dive wreck or deep.

Take the 2nd stage out of your mouth, lift it up, to clear your head and flip (rotatate about the hose axis) it's upside down.

If you don't U snake the hose back 180° is wrong, no matter how long the hose is.

As experienced divers we all know the propper deployment.
It take many sessions of repeated application of technique to produce an automatic response.
It's the inexpereinced divers this will help.

Place a side port in your mouth as the primary, and now IT CAN'T HAPPEN! Don't need to think, just give it to him/her.

Mike D

:blfish:
 

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