7D vs G-12 .. is it worth it ?

[darook]

Based on your skills Chris I think you would get some amazing images with the 7D for all of the reasons you already know. I take 2 T2i's along with housing, strobes, lenses, and misc. gear with me on dive trips. I put all of those in one carry on along with my mask. I have a backpack also with my reg, dive computer, laptop, and other stuff. The only stuff I check are clothes, fins, and BC. If you decide to house your 7D I am sure you will get some great images. I got a G12 just before the G1X announcement but I really got is as an easy carry along for skiing. I am considering getting a housing for it for my wife though I am thinking hard about a G1X and a housing for it for her.

 

[azscubadude]

Based on your skills Chris I think you would get some amazing images with the 7D for all of the reasons you already know. I take 2 T2i's along with housing, strobes, lenses, and misc. gear with me on dive trips. I put all of those in one carry on along with my mask. I have a backpack also with my reg, dive computer, laptop, and other stuff. The only stuff I check are clothes, fins, and BC. If you decide to house your 7D I am sure you will get some great images. I got a G12 just before the G1X announcement but I really got is as an easy carry along for skiing. I am considering getting a housing for it for my wife though I am thinking hard about a G1X and a housing for it for her.

darook, Thanks for the reply.

I've been giving the G1X another look as well. I've read every post and looked at every sample shot I can find on the internet, realizing of course that most of the comments are from people that haven't even held the camera yet and the ones that have are joined at the hip of Canon or have a stake in the sales of the camera.

I hang around the FM Forum (link below) and there are a couple huge threads on the G1X there by some excellent photographers. From what I've read it's a mix bag of opinions depending on your use of the camera. For UW applications the comments aren't that glowing. Most of the photos posted on any of the forums or reviews are from PRE-Production cameras, which means both the hardware and firmware could be incomplete.

Canon G1X - FM Forums (half of this one is pre-announcement (rumors). Around page 3 or 4 the actual camera and specs have been announced and it takes off from there.

Here is another.
Canon joins in: Canon PowerShot G1X - FM Forums

I hold my opinion when reading a lot of these posts especially since the camera isn't on the shelves yet but I've been reading the opinions of some of these guys for years and know the ones to respect and ones to ignore.

Sample videos.
Canon PowerShot G1 X Preview: 6. Samples and Movies: Digital Photography Review

Then you get posts like this one.
Canon G1X video samples – DIGIC 5 – I’m not impressed | EOSHD.com.

I was one of the unlucky photographers that got caught up in the Canon Mark III fiasco a few years back. It took three camera bodies and multiple trips back and forth to Canon Repair to get it ironed out. I did end up with a fabulous camera but it took almost a year.

The G1X isn't on the scale of the Mark III but it does show that big companies can make mistakes. I love my Canon gear but I'm not a FanBoy either. I'm not sure what would have happened if the world press and every professional sports photographer hadn't picked up on the problem. Would it have been swept under the rug.. not sure, but could have been. It cost Canon millions and millions of dollars to save face on the Mark III.

Canon cut a lot out of the G1X even compared to the G12 in order to get a large sensor P&S camera on the market. The zoom is cut back. The macro focus goes from 1/2 inch to over 7 inches. For me this could be a deal breaker since that is why I want to upgrade.

They did add a couple great features, like continual autofocus in video and full zoom in video with autofocus. They also upped the f/stop from f/8 to f/16. Image quality is fabulous on the photos that Canon released (of course) but on other leaked photos.. not so good.

I'm sure the UW housing companies that support the G-series cameras will produce a housing for the G1X. But if you look at Ikelite's site they are dumping or not supporting most, if not all, of the 4/3'rd camera housings. Here is Ikelite's list of discontinued housings or non-supported housings.

Press Releases

It will be interesting to see what the housings do look like since the G1X lens extends far beyond anything I've seen in the G-series of up until now and much more than the G-12. The housing port could be interesting, since I find it near impossible to clean the inside of my G-12 port. See link below. Both the Canon OEM housing and/or other manufacturers housings could go from compact to rather large real fast, especially considering the front port on this housing probably won't be removable. After looking at the below photo the port for the G1X could be huge for the zoom length and to avoid vignetting at the wide end.

http://www.dpreview.com/previews/canong1x/images/top-on-tele.jpg

I called Ikelite the other day and asked them if they will be producing a housing for the G1X and they said they wouldn't be making a decision until they can get their hands on an actual G1X. I think they probably will since the controls and shoe fit their eTTL system (Canon left the hot shoe on the G1X) and the control layout isn't that much different than the past G-seris cameras, it almost looks a little simpler on the G1X.

Time will tell. As soon as the camera actually hits the shelves there will be a flood of updated reviews, comments and photos. I will be watching it closely.

 

[dhaas]

Folks,

I'll be accused of being a Canon AND Ikelite FanBoy but have to weigh in here. I feel my photos and years of experience give me a fair perspective on digital SLRs and the new Canon G1X.

People house a SLR because they want super sharp lenses and AF speed. Plus bigger sensor dynamic range, blah blah blah. They're willing to haul a little more weight and bulk and spend more $$$$$ to get these results.

First, quit comparing the Canon G1X to a G11 / G12 or even a 4:3 sensor camera The Canon G1X sensor is MUCH larger and will deliver results.

I have PJ (photo journalist) friends who related yes, they had some Canon 1DS MKIII problems but to say something is relatable to a whole brand is ludicrous. Just like the "Bad copy / Good Copy" BS all over Fred Miranda, Dpreview and other sites where people only "test" their cameras, lenses, etc. shooting brick walls and never go shoot photos. If this was as big a problem as people babble on about the companies would have been out of business ages ago.

YES, it did happen with the Canon 1DS MK III, so don't think I'm not understanding of those frustrated users

It's simply that MILLIONS of Canon and Nikon and Sony and whoever's brand cameras are being used every day by people getting in focus photos. 99% of bad photos I see are due to FOE. Failure due to Operator Error

The add on lenses (WA and especially external MACRO) many housing mfrs. will develop will get around the 7.9" minimum focus (for MACRO shooting) just like many are doing already with the Sony NEX series lenses and housings.

The Sony cameras along with some of the Olympus models produce good quality images, the Sony with APS-C sensor especially. I've played with them quite a bit.......

My decision to not buy one has been due to these reasons:

* NEW interchangeable lenses with many of the good ones costing as much as SLR lenses. (I currently have a Canon 60D with a few lenses.)

* MENU set ups that are still no where near as simple as Canon (I admit to my laziness in wanting to "re-think" when learning a new camera)

* Flash systems that are all over the board from add on miniscule units to pop up ones (that have worked with Fiber optic solutions from housing to strobes in S-TTL type modes. Not bad automatic and when dialed in equal to TTL through a hot shoe and corded system like Ikelite's.) Again, having to change from what I have used and works well was a deciding factor............

The reason I think the Canon G1X will be a hit is for those who simply don't want to use a larger SLR system it will deliver great photos in a smaller package. Plus travel easier, etc.

YES, we're all waiting on tests with production models to show if focus speed has improved due to DIGIC V. I'd be surprised if it equals even a Canon Rebel T3i but who knows? I know lots of shooters with slower focussing P&S models that get good results from practicing with their camera and diving more.

As mentioned I agree Ikelite will probably house it with their TTL circuitry to DS Substrobes. I was a bit surprised Ikelite didn't jump in on housing the EVIL Mirrorless cameras, too. (I say this as a dealer and USER of Ikelite housings and strobes.) But now think they made the right decision due to the numbers of other brands sold worldwide and the teensy numbers of UW shooters.

Small P&S and Canon, Nikon and other mid-sized cameras sell in HUGE volumes. So you have to pick what models will sell best and support those.........

We'll just have to wait and see but I'll bet even at the opening price of $799.00 Canon will sell every G1X they can make.

And I'm pretty sure UW shooters will be some of those folks

YMMV

dhaas
www.haasimages.com

 

[thejamez]

What makes it even worse is I can't get a flight out of Phoenix to anywhere in the Caribbean without a one night layover in Houston.. this means I have to claim my bags in Houston, lug them all to a hotel and lug them back to recheck everything the following morning (not fun even with 3 bags).

Huh? In the last year I've flown from Phoenix to Roatan and Belize, layover in Houston and completing the entire trip from PHX to destination in roughly 6 hours.... heading to Cozumel next month in even less than that.

 

[eddyunderwater]

Wow- amazing talk can be generated from the comparison of a Point and Squirt and an SLR!

House your Canon 7D as it is the next step for you Chris. You will not be satisfied until you do this. I speak as a professional shooter who has taught and coached many many students in their level-up to SLR. Last week a student flew in from Houston to see me and we set him up with a Nauticam housing for his 7D. Granted it was an expensive move, but this would be a camera system you don't need to worry about changing for years. His photography blossomed underwater and I watched him flood his mask several times because he was smiling so hard!

Ignore the depth of field charts for any comparison between a cheap P+S and this SLR, it will never match the capability of the SLR in any case. The range of a compact's controls is just not there, unlike an SLR.

MJH said "no contest between the two" - and he is quite correct as you probably know, but your travel bag for this camera will certainly not be a carry on if you get an Ikelite or Sea&Sea, nor will this last if thumped around. No disrespect to those manufacturers, but metal housings with metal port systems with glass optics are more forgiving for stuffing into carry-on bags. I 'stuff' my Subal housings into my old Crumpler backpack, along with dome port, flat port, three lenses, two Inons, arms and cords, and still it fits in an overhead bin, as it did on my last trip out to Mexico, no problem! I see you have a 10-22 and you'll need a good macro, say in the 50-60 range. These lenses require a dome port and flat port, plus an extension ring for the dome to place the wide angle in the correct spot inside the dome. Long zoom lenses will be of no use underwater.

Also you don't need to worry about housing a 1Ds - the housings are enormous - travel is compromised. Let's face some reality. Ask yourself some questions: Am I a full time professional who works freelance or staff as an editorial or advertising shooter? Will I use my camera to earn a living? Does my knowledge of photography need improving and does my current system allow me to learn [and possess the full range of] all there is to learn about shutter speed, aperture and ISO? Am I keen enough, and do I dive enough to warrant buying a housing for my SLR, and do I have the means to fund it?

If you answered yes to one any of these, you may be hungry enough to do it, but don't get caught up with the technorati.
If you stare at the web/camera store/reviews/forums long enough you will be waiting for ever! The tried and trusted systems out there from Nauticam, Subal, Aquatica, Seacam, and Nexus will be enough to satisfy your every desire, AND are surprisingly smaller than cheaper plastic housings. Some housings are more ergonomic, some are basic and mechanical. These above housings are what a photographer demands when he/she wants to use the camera 'as if it was not in the housing'. I have one rule, always spend more on your housing than your camera ever cost. It doesn't do to have a camera housing that won't measure up to the normal camera handling as if on land. Electronic housing controls are great when you get them, but are not things that you can fix when stranded on a live-aboard, always go manual controls on your housing. If you wish to do what so many people are doing, you can use the fiber optic pseudo TTL, but I do advocate learning manual control of your lighting, so I suggest the Inons as a travel friendly, super flexible light, with enough power to deliver f11 easily at 3 feet at ISO100.

If you need advice on which camera housing to get, firstly identify how much you want to spend, how often you dive, and factor in some tuition time, [very worth it even for basic set up] with a good underwater photography teacher. Apart from myself, I can recommend you might visit the Caymans to see Cathy Church [a good friend of mine] the shore diving there allows frequent photo dives for zero hassle with boats. Message me if you want to chat, my email is there.
I can also recommend Reef Photo for a competent staff of guys, namely Tony, who I use for any students wishing to buy gear.
The owner Ryan is young and fresh and has his eye on the pulse, loves the latest gear, but won't rush into new items without a full review on the equipment and field testing in house.

Well I am verging on a novel here, so I am cutting myself off.. good luck with your decision, if you need any help please feel free to message me.

Cheers

Eddy

 

[azscubadude]

Huh? In the last year I've flown from Phoenix to Roatan and Belize, layover in Houston and completing the entire trip from PHX to destination in roughly 6 hours.... heading to Cozumel next month in even less than that.

Maybe I didn't go far enough in my explanation. I live in Prescott so the airport is well over 100 miles from my home. I try to fly mostly Continental (for reasons I don't need to go into here). The 5am Continental flight from Phoenix would get me to Houston with less than 30 minutes to make the connection, sometimes less. That means I would have to get up at midnight to make the drive and make the connection (if there are no accidents or problems along the way) or spend an overnight in Phoenix (and I wouldn't leave my bags in the car in PHX so that still means lugging them into the hotel overnight).. but that still leaves me with minutes to make the connection if all goes well.

I see this year Continental has bumped up the PHX to IAH earlier so that leaves me more time to make the connection. I might try this the next trip.

I've flown from PHX to Cancun on US Scareways and then taken MayAir over but that still means lugging bags from Terminal #3 to Terminal #1 and adds over $150.00 for the round trip of US Airways for MayAir.

So yes I could make it in one day but I would be DOA when I got to CZM or miss the flight to CZM if there was a delay in the flight getting to IAH. So I take a early afternoon flight from PHX to IAH allowing for any problems or traffic delays on the drive down (which can be hours if there is an accident on I-17 in the mountains).. land in IAH for an early dinner and a short trip to the airport the next morning. No rushing, no missed flights.

I can make it back from CZM to PHX in one day easy but I have left as much as 2 hours between connections in IAH to PHX and have had to RUN (and I mean run) to the plane because of Immigration and TSA's huge lines and having to change terminals in IAH.

My days of running through airports, missing connections, etc are over. I now allow at leat 3 hours between all connections.. minimum and have never had a problem since doing so.

 

[azscubadude]

Wow- amazing talk can be generated from the comparison of a Point and Squirt and an SLR!

House your Canon 7D as it is the next step for you Chris. You will not be satisfied until you do this. Eddy

Hi Eddy, (and everyone else that posted to my thread)

Thanks for the great comments and opinions. I am leaning toward what you mentioned and have my list made out but just waiting to get some reports on the Canon G1X before I pull the trigger on the DSLR gear. I have my doubts about the G1X and it's macro capabilities (or lack thereof) but just want to make sure as I would much rather not have to carry all the extra gear.. but on the other hand know I would love to shoot with it.

 

[Black_3000psi]

ok my two cents worth, first I am not a fan of blurred backgrounds, but then I also dont shoot much macro either, I have used the g11 and now own both a g12 and a t3i, to be honest some times I have to check the properties of the pic to see if I shot it with the g12 or the t3i. they are both very capable cameras. I must admit, sometimes I wonder why I made the jump, then I realize it was the resolution issue. but then again how often will I need to blow a pic up so big that I need the extra 8mp that the t3i give me? the lens issues have also seem not so important, as I have both the standard 18-55 mm lens, and a L-series lens and honestly, in the underwater shots I dont see that much difference. I still use my g12.