60# wing?

[tomfcrist]

Stuart, this is in no way what you want to hear, but I'm gonna say it anyway....

Sight unseen, you are in no way ready to conduct decompression diving. You have been certified as a diver for less than 9 months, and you have not gotten nearly the experience needed in the few dives you have done to really even consider yourself competent to start a deco class. You seem to be in a huge hurry to go nowhere. I honestly can't believe an instructor is going to teach you AN/DP.

That being said, a 50-60lb wing will be more than enough lift.

The hog 58 horseshoe wings suck(quality).

Don't drop your gear ontop of your wing....it won't get "your" version of a pinch flat.

 

[CptTightPants21]

Stuart, this is in no way what you want to hear, but I'm gonna say it anyway....

Sight unseen, you are in no way ready to conduct decompression diving. You have been certified as a diver for less than 9 months, and you have not gotten nearly the experience needed in the few dives you have done to really even consider yourself competent to start a deco class. You seem to be in a huge hurry to go nowhere. I honestly can't believe an instructor is going to teach you AN/DP.

That being said, a 50-60lb wing will be more than enough lift.

The hog 58 horseshoe wings suck(quality).

Don't drop your gear ontop of your wing....it won't get "your" version of a pinch flat.

I didn't say anything because it wasn't really the question asked, but I second this sentiment.

I would actually recommend that you take GUE fundies or UTD. I feel like your current situation/dive shop is allowing you to move along too quickly.

I have more than double the dives you do and even I am not ready for AN/deco class even though I have instructors who would give it to me. What you need is an independent third party that will not hold back and give you the no nonsense answer of where your skills are. Taking a fundamentals class in singles or doubles will give you that answer. If you can get at least a rec-pass under GUE guidelines, I would consider you ready to take an AN/deco class. Anything less and you are short changing yourself by taking the tech classes.

Look on youtube for the "essentials of technical diving"....

 

[stuartv]

Tom,

Thanks for the info on the Hog wing.

As for being "ready", I understand your concern. All I can say to that is: I meet the standards for starting the training. I have done my own evaluation and I consider my instructor to be very competent as a diver and an instructor. And, the various other instructors and Adv Trimix divers I know all consider him to be a top-notch Tech diver and Tech instructor (peer reviews of him being part of my own evaluation and decision-making process). My instructor has had me in a class and seen me dive in some reasonably challenging conditions (e.g. 39F water, 3 feet viz, running a line at 60+ feet, and dealing with 2nd stage freeflows during said dives) and he is satisfied that I'm "ready" to start the training. However, he has also made it very clear that it is entirely possible that it could be well into next year before he is satisfied with my skills and ready to sign off on my ANDP cert - and that is with a current schedule that involves a lot of training weekends between now and the end of this season and then pool training over the winter and then more OW training in the Spring. I expect I'll have over 50 dives logged before he is ready to sign off on my cert. Say what you want about that, but, with there being DMs out there that only have 60 dives themselves leading groups of newbies, at least if I screw up I will most likely only kill myself.

I have read Deco for Divers - and understood it. I have discussed some of the book with my instructor. He also taught my TDI Nitrox class. He is completely satisfied that I am more than ready for the curriculum of ANDP. He and I both recognize that my area of biggest concern is improving my buoyancy control while task loaded. It is not where it needs to be before he would sign off on my ANDP cert. OTOH, it is good enough that several instructors, DMs and one Adv Trimix diver that I have dived with have complimented me on it. I'm not suggesting it's great, or even good. I definitely recognize a LOT of room for improvement, based on my experience so far. But, I suspect it may be better than you are giving me credit for, and it is (obviously) good enough for my instructor to be willing to accept me to start Tech training.

My only hurry is wanting to be ready to dive doubles, with light deco, by next Memorial Day (10 months from now) for a dive trip I want to do. I think starting now gives me enough time to be ready for that without "rushing" or cutting corners. And, if my instructor still doesn't think I'm ready by then, so be it. I will know that I didn't work hard enough and/or didn't have sufficient talent to meet that timetable, and do that dive trip as a purely Recreational diving trip.

No offense to you, but I'll trust his judgment (and my own) over that of someone who knows nothing about me other than what it says about me on SB.

And, not specifically at you, Tom...

Why is it that every time I ask a simple question here - e.g. about something as basic as a wing recommendation - it turns into posts from people who have never met me or my instructor and never seen me dive that impugn my and my instructor's competence - and generally based on assumptions that the poster has made rather than actual info I have provided? (Yes, I did post wrong info ONCE that merited being jumped on) What is wrong with some of you people? This kind of crap does not help me, the SB community, or the diving community in general, in my opinion. Really?! You think you are helping me or anyone else with some of these posts?!!? You're NOT! Crikey!! Answer the question, post something HELPFUL (preferably, helpful, on topic, and nice), or STHeckU!! I gave myself a 3 month hiatus from SB and now I remember why. I went to a scuba meetup last night and met a long-time diver and instructor. We were chatting and eventually SB came up. Her words: "I can only get on SB about once every 6 months. It's all I can stand. Some of the people on there are just unbelievable!" Like I said, those were HER words, unprompted by me. Think about how much nicer SB might be if you people with the snotty, snarky, off-topic, unhelpful, or just generally BS comments weren't driving away half the people who come here. Sure, you may be Super Divers who know more and have better skills than the other 98% of us. Good for you! But, if you have to make sure everyone knows that every time you post, you're actually not helping ANYONE.

 

[Dhboner]

I missed Stuart

 

[tomfcrist]

I think actually sitting down and talking/diving with some of us would be beneficial to you in more ways than one. It is very hard to communicate tone and intent via a forum. In person at least you would be able to ask why people say the things they do, and why they have the opinions they hold....and actually get an articulated answer that maybe you wouldn't perceive as an attack on you or your instructor.

 

[stuartv]

I didn't say anything because it wasn't really the question asked, but I second this sentiment.

Thank you.

What you need is an independent third party that will not hold back and give you the no nonsense answer of where your skills are.

Because you are ASSUMING that my current instructor is holding back and blowing my smoke up my butt? And you are ASSUMING that my instructor would also sign off on my ANDP cert before I am competent to have that?


As an aside, what would be wrong with starting a fresh OW grad off into Intro+ANDP immediately (standards aside), as long as the course material was not presented until the student was actually ready and as long as the final certification was not given until the student was actually competent to have it? E.g. Student with nothing but OW and their 4 OW training dives under their belt starts Intro+ANDP. Instructor doesn't teach them any of the actual material from AN or DP until they've worked with the student and the student has 25 dives logged. Then they start getting AN and DP material - when the instructor deems them ready - and continue their training dives. The student possibly ends up with a total of (just for example) 75 dives logged before the instructor finally determines they are competent and signs off on the AN and DP certs. What's the problem?

IOW, I meet the standards for starting the course. So, why the eff does it matter when I start? Isn't the only thing that really matters how competent I am before I "graduate"? And who here knows anything about my instructor (who is not the same person I did OW with) to make even a halfway reasonable assertion that he will graduate me before I am competent?

---------- Post added July 8th, 2015 at 02:35 PM ----------

I think actually sitting down and talking/diving with some of us would be beneficial to you in more ways than one. It is very hard to communicate tone and intent via a forum. In person at least you would be able to ask why people say the things they do, and why they have the opinions they hold....and actually get an articulated answer that maybe you wouldn't perceive as an attack on you or your instructor.

I would actually love to do that. People USUALLY don't think I'm nearly as much of a butthead in person as they deem me from just what I post online.

However, it is pretty hard to see any way to spin tone and intent and still not see comments like these (just as one example) as an attack:

Might be time for your instructor to take some classes that will teach him about buoyancy control and trim. At minimum someone needs to explain the buoyancy characteristics of an AL80 to him.

---------- Post added July 7th, 2015 at 05:18 PM ----------

Time to replace the monkey with a qualified instructor.

---------- Post added July 8th, 2015 at 02:35 PM ----------

I missed Stuart

I missed (some of) you, too! LOL

 

[RJP]

by that time you are ready you will have probably moved onto another wing.

As with most things in scuba... it's far cheaper and easier to simply buy "the second one" FIRST.

 

[Dhboner]

Seriously though....if you search through the threads that Stuart has started they are riddled with people offering advice and then Stuart countering that advice like some half-baked scuba lawyer. People have honestly tried to help you in your journey and you just can't seem to accept advice at least not without challenging it for paragraphs on end. Why you even managed to crap on Tobin who has forgotten to log more dives than you can ever hope to do in your lifetime. If you seriously want input then ask away, but if you are actually just looking for affirmation for a decision you have already made then get a dog. The people on this board have helped me immensely as I have grown as a diver largely because when I asked a question I was ready to listen to the answers without getting defensive and argumentative. People are trying to keep you on track for a learning journey that will never totally end, but you seem to practically want to dive the Doria before your first year is up. A good friend and instructor often refers to divers who were in a hurry to go from zero to hero as "friends I no longer have to send Christmas cards to". I know this post will piss you off just like almost every other one that didn't agree with you, but remember, God gave you two ears but only one mouth for a reason.

 

[stuartv]

As with most things in scuba... it's far cheaper and easier to simply buy "the second one" FIRST.

Which is exactly the reason my instructor gave me when he told me to go ahead and get a 60# wing instead of a 45 - 50.

 

[RJP]

I would actually love to do that. People USUALLY don't think I'm nearly as much of a butthead in person as they deem me from just what I post online.

However, it is pretty hard to see any way to spin tone and intent and still not see comments like these (just as one example) as an attack:

I'm no-where near as much of a butthead in person either.



But the fact of the matter is, nearly every single thing you post about your instructor indicates that there's something more than a bit "off" about his training approach, recommendations, and opinions. I'm sure he's a great guy, but based on the (admittedly limited) info that you post about him I would not be comfortable sending anyone his way for training, advice, or gear recommendations.

---------- Post added July 8th, 2015 at 03:07 PM ----------

Which is exactly the reason my instructor gave me when he told me to go ahead and get a 60# wing instead of a 45 - 50.

Right, but the reasoning behind the specific wing he recommended is squirrelly at best. (The fact that he may have guessed the correct size notwithstanding.)