3 or 5 minute Safety Stop?

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Ohhhh....wee.... I have tried to respond to this thread 5 times and it keeps telling me I have not said enough words............................

---------- Post added July 6th, 2013 at 12:48 PM ----------

May haps I hold my breath tooooo loooonnnnnggggg

---------- Post added July 6th, 2013 at 01:00 PM ----------

The Suunto D9 first came out in 2004, if I recall correctly. I have had mine for over 8 years and it has the option to use deep stops.



And you trust a damn computer!!!! And you are still alive>?!!!...
 
I was not crazy about the 1500 psi turn pressure because I have gotten use to diving 1/3rds and thought people should be turning at 2000. But by following the general pattern of the dives and turning at their 30 minute limit I was still getting back on the boat with about 1/2 of my gas. I just can't envision that rule of getting back on a boat with only 800 psi anymore. I want about 1200 to 1300 psi on the boat after a one hour dive, no matter what the depth.

This is likely an issue of 'where you stand on an issue depends on where you sit,' and 'different strokes for different folks.' You are a woman, which many associate with lower SAC rates, and you obviously use relatively little gas.

I'm a guy, 6'1, nearly 275#, chunky & mid. 40's. No real shock, I go through gas a lot faster than you. My computer-calculated SAC rate tends to run around 0.65 cf/min. Not real bad, all things considered, but if I considered 2,000 PSI my turn pressure & thought I was supposed to get back to my entry point with 1,000 PSI, I'd dive really short profiles.

After all, with the typical Bonaire op. situation, you and I would probably be diving the same tanks (80 cf aluminums).

I shore dive there, not boat, but here's how I tend to handle dive planning there (west coat, warm water, great viz., minimal current, land very close).

1.) Wade out, go down, drop to around 30 - 40 feet. Swim parallel to shore, into mild current (if I can tell which way it's coming from). Drop down deeper if I see something interesting, then come back up. Typical Bonaire fill, once cooled down, in my experience is around 2900 starting the dive. Give or take 150 PSI.

2.) Turn around 1600 PSI. Make the swim back in 20 - 30 feet of water. In fact, if the reef is fairly shallow, get up to 15 - 20 feet & let the dive computers kick in & start counting off the 3 min. safety stop.

3.) Once back in the general area of the exit, mess around in the shallows - exploring rubble, etc... Water depth around 8 to 15 feet deep.

4.) Walk out with maybe 300 - 600 PSI in tank. Being mindful that toward the end, I'm so shallow I'm right off the bottom, and at times could stand up & stick my head out of the water if I wanted to. Typical dive info. on computer might be 50 minute dive, max. depth 60 feet, average depth 25 feet.

This profile provides generous off-gassing, and while non-traditional in terms of gas planning, accounts for conditions. I'm using my 'rubble crawl' like some of you use lengthy safety stops close to a dive boat.

Richard.
 
So got to love your profile Richard....I would just rather hit 100ft deep and play around and glide back toward 20ft and still be onboard with 1000psi after an hour...but then..that is just me...:wink:

Again..love your sense of style...:wink:

---------- Post added July 6th, 2013 at 01:41 PM ----------

So got to love your profile Richard....I would just rather hit 100ft deep and play around and glide back toward 20ft and still be onboard with 1000psi after an hour...but then..that is just me...:wink:

Again..love your sense of style...:wink:

Geez..sorry..I thought I was on the Bonaire thread. I dive HP100's in the US so I always have to plan for deco on 100ft dives....
 
So got to love your profile Richard....I would just rather hit 100ft deep and play around and glide back toward 20ft and still be onboard with 1000psi after an hour...but then..that is just me...:wink:
That's pretty much how I dove Bonaire. I did my deep stuff at the beginning of the dive while everyone was still getting suited up. After about twenty minutes, I met them at @ 40-60 and continued the dive until I got to 1500. I then went to the top of the slope and looked for fun stuff shallow. I had a few 80 minute dives and got on the boat with about 1000 psi,
 
Tracydr.

I'll let others more knowledge do the analysis but you might find this study interesting regarding deep stops. After reading this, I decided to add a 2 to 2.5 "deep stop" at half the depth for dives deeper than 60 and more than 20 minutes.

Effect of varying deep stop times and shallow stop times on precordial bubbles after dives to 25 msw (82 fsw).

There is another study that found 30 feet per minute was the optimal ascent rate, still looking for that one...
Thanks for this!

---------- Post added July 6th, 2013 at 12:12 PM ----------

There are two extremes in terms of ascent, Haldane and RGBM. I'm sure that these will be discussed in great detail in this thread. I would like to start by saying that ascent rate is important and may not be getting the same attention as "stops". For ascents in general, leave the bottom rapidly and hit the surface very slowly.
I have RGBM on my Liquivision. Still trying to decide the ideal GF to set for recreational dives.

---------- Post added July 6th, 2013 at 12:23 PM ----------

Here is how I look at it. Do I have enough gas to safely do a 5 minute stop? Do I have any other pressing reason to get out of the water? Am I here to dive? A safety stop is still diving, and sometimes the best diver mistakes are made at the safety stop, giving you something to chuckle about. Often, the manta rays and whale sharks swim by on the safety stop. There is no good reason not to stretch it out.
One of my best shark sightings was a safety stop at night in Catalina Dive Park.
 
FWIW, this entire thread was started when a so called expert claiming that studies supported the argument but when he was called on it he changed the context of his answer and stated that no such (to his knowledge) studies existed to back up his original statement.

While 5 minutes sounds better then 3 to me, the fact remains.... we don't *know*.
 
Reference was made to a 3 and 5 minute safety stop in the thread on draining your tank dry. I'd like to discuss the pros/cons of each. Also, any actual papers or research done on the benefits of a longer safety stop would be great.
Finally, I'm wondering if doing several stops or pauses would be an even better way to perform ascents.
What's the safest way to perform ascents and what exactly are we trying to do? Prevent silent bubbles, prevent DCS, prevent what?
How do you ascend? Are you considering making changes?


You know I have just read back this whole thread and I believe I am now a bait for someone who is board on the July 4th holiday...
 
This nails it for me from Alert Diver | Deep Stops :
Bennett:
Safety in this context means no DCS, especially its neurological form, which is the most common in scuba divers. By reducing the amount of bubbles in the blood vessels, a deep stop reduces decompression "stress," and thus is safer. However, the definitive research as to whether the use of an additional deep stop reduces the incidence of neurological DCS has not been done, nor has it been done with most computers and tables in use today.
 
This nails it for me from Alert Diver | Deep Stops :

Why are you conflating deep stops with extended safety stops? Also that quote wasn't a summary of the entire article, it was just one panelist's opinion. Cherry picking doesn't give a complete story.
 
Why are you conflating deep stops with extended safety stops? Also that quote wasn't a summary of the entire article, it was just one panelist's opinion. Cherry picking doesn't give a complete story.
I do both and see them equally as important as well as complimentary. You might have missed it, but both are implemented to reduce the incidence of DCS.

As for "cherry picking", that's a phrase normally used among religious legalists defending their narrow interpretation of scriptures. I'm not sure why you feel the need to keep boxing everyone's ears who has the temerity to think differently from you. It does nothing to promote a civil discussion and it's tiresome to boot.
 

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