1st regulator, DIY maintenance/service??

[taimen]

Whats he cost to service 1st and 2nd stage in Greece or Europe?

Up north it is typically 70-80€ for 1st+2nd, and 90-100€ for a single set with 1st and 2 2nd stages. These include all parts (and taxes).
Oxygen cleaning usually adds 10-20€ more.
Apeks service kits are sold for approx 24-30€ (1st stage kit) and 12-15€ (2nd stage).. Thus consumables cost around 40€ per 1st+2nd for DIY service. More realistically 50 if you honestly count for grease, cleaners etc.
Mediterranean countries have lower cost of labour than Germany and Nordics, and they have strong scuba industry so I expect the labour part being less.

If you own only 1-3 regulators and have to buy all tools and equipment yourself, it takes many years to pay for the equipment. With 5+ regulators requiring oxygen cleaning DIY servicing becomes economical.
Tech oriented dive clubs may have all the regulator service tools and ultrasound cleaner available.

 

[halocline]

If you own only 1-3 regulators and have to buy all tools and equipment yourself, it takes many years to pay for the equipment. With 5+ regulators requiring oxygeb cleaning DIY servicing becomes economical.
Tech oriented dive clubs may have all the regulator service tools and ultrasound cleaner available.

I'm not sure this is accurate, at least in the U.S., so I'll give you my costs. I spent about $100 for tools, less than the cost of one rebuild. Since I use older, classic regulators, seats are commonly available and the o-rings are standard sizes. This make the cost of parts for a rebuild much much cheaper than the inflated cost of $30-40 rebuild kits. I estimate my cost in parts to rebuild a MK5/10 and a barrel poppet 2nd (like the G250) to be well under $10. So I probably recouped my investment in a couple of years. Add to that the fact that I can confidently buy older excellent quality regulators in terrible shape for a very low cost, and rebuild them to like-new performance. Only rarely have I found one that is corroded internally beyond the point of functioning.

But that's not the real benefit. Here in the U.S. the shop technicians are of wildly varying quality. I started DIY about a year after learning to dive. The regulator I had bought during my class was working fine but it was due for service, so I brought it in, paid over $100, and got back a regulator that was almost un-diveable. That will never happen to me again.

There are lots of threads abut necessary equipment for DIY service, but with older simple designs the specialized tools needed are minimal. You don't really need an inline adjuster or even an ultrasonic cleaner. Those things speed up service, but you can get the job done without them. I still don't have a magnehelic and my 2nd stages breathe wonderfully. What you do absolutely need in terms of measurement tools is an IP gauge, and I would not do MK5/10 without a torque wrench for the turret bolt. Other than that it's just spanners, o-ring picks, and hex key wrenches.

 

[Bryan@Vintage Double Hose]

I would not do MK5/10 without a torque wrench for the turret bolt.

Be sure you have a torque wrench that does INCH POUNDS...Smaller the better. It is very difficult.....I didn't say impossible...to set inch pounds with a big ass torque wrench calibrated in FOOT POUNDS but even if you do the math correctly it is unwieldy to use a full size torque wrench in this application.

 

[Olariuas]

Up north it is typically 70-80€ for 1st+2nd, and 90-100€ for a single set with 1st and 2 2nd stages.
These include all parts (and taxes). Oxygen cleaning usually adds 10-20€ more.
Apeks service kits are sold for approx 24-30€ (1st stage kit) and 12-15€ (2nd stage)..
Thus consumables cost around 40€ per 1st+2nd for DIY service. More realistically 50 if you honestly count for grease, cleaners etc.)

Mediterranean countries have lower cost of labour than Germany and Nordics, and they have strong scuba industry so I expect the labour part being less.

If you own only 1-3 regulators and have to buy all tools and equipment yourself, it takes many years to pay for the equipment. With 5+ regulators requiring oxygeb cleaning DIY servicing becomes economical.
Tech oriented dive clubs may have all the regulator service tools and ultrasound cleaner available.

If you do more than 100+ dives it's already 2 servicing each 6 months / more if you are instructor (I guess...)
Now- When it worth to DIY service our regulators and other gear such as Valves, Manifolds etc ? Hoses ?


Example: Servicing DECO / STAGE OxyCleaned regulators
MK2 Evo R195 Regulator buy below 200 €
80 € for 1rst and 2nd stage + 20 € for oxy-cleaning = 100 € per servicing per 100x dives or 1 year date-to-date
In 2 years you already reach 200 €

Wouldn't not be easier to resell and mention it need to be serviced
and rebuy a new one directly ?


Mediterranean countries maybe have lower cost of labour but honestly your price is still the same and close to what I've found.
complete set 80 € add octopus become 100 € - oxyclean 20 - 30 €

One of The cheapest way to service all your regulators specially if you don't want to do it yourself and want to use all tools used by repair shop- it would be to join a dive club and motivate them to buy tools and have someone in charge and trained by brands directly- mostly it's already done
or they have someone in charge who learnt without brands training.


Now- what happen if you have a regulator failure because you serviced yourself or someone not trained done it ? or trained but made worst than before ?
Who's responsible ? Do we lost gear warranty specially if we bought new ?

But that's not the real benefit. Here in the U.S. the shop technicians are of wildly varying quality. I started DIY about a year after learning to dive. The regulator I had bought during my class was working fine but it was due for service, so I brought it in, paid over $100, and got back a regulator that was almost un-diveable. That will never happen to me again.

I've read that quite a lot too- and not even from this forum.
And clearly divers who had that situation stopped to service with repair shop and started to ask how to DIY.

 

[taimen]

Wouldn't not be easier to resell and mention it need to be serviced
and rebuy a new one directly ?

Yes, I have been wondering this too. I often see people selling used regs that are unserviced and asking price + service cost by a shop is higher than buying new.

it would be to join a dive club and motivate them to buy tools and have someone in charge and trained by brands directly- mostly it's already done
or they have someone in charge who learnt without brands training.

In my area most clubs do have tools (and ultrasound cleaner) for servicing regulators (mostly Apeks and its clones). People use these for servicing/rebuilding their own regulators. A basic regulator and cylinder service "workshop" is included in the gas blender course as part of oxygen cleaning training. Gas blender courses are common and popular, because that is often required for using the club filling station independently.

Now- what happen if you have a regulator failure because you serviced yourself or someone not trained done it ? or trained but made worst than before ?
Who's responsible ? Do we lost gear warranty specially if we bought new ?

As far as I know, there should not be any liability issues or adverse insurance consequences when you service and dive your own regulators yourself. If you rent, borrow, use them when working as an instructor and so on everything changes. For anything with money (or students) involved I would recommend having everything serviced by a certified technician. Note that I don't know much about the commercial scuba industry practices.
But clubs where many people DIY service their own regulators with club tools still take their student/loaner regulators to certified shops.
Gear warranty probably will be void after self servicing, or skipping scheduled service intervals. This comes back to your lifetime cost calculation. How much is the warranty worth compared to service costs.
In Europe manufacturer will still be responsible for defects in manufacturing, even if warranty is void for any reason.

 

[Olariuas]

I wonder if there are no local laws saying that regulator should be revised by a official technician
in anycase if there are no history for previous servicing from a official technician and failure happens this brand can totally say that you modified diy repair and no more responsabilities from them.

But as deco regulator example, 2 years you are more close to the price you bought the regs.
Same for the main regulator even if you have 1 or 2 regs

 

[Magnus Lundstedt]

Yes, I have been wondering this too. I often see people selling used regs that are unserviced and asking price + service cost by a shop is higher than buying new.

I often see people selling used unserviced regulators and ask a higher price than what i can buy the same regulator new for on the internet.

Some people are clueless, they see their LDS ask €500+ for a regulator that you can buy for €250 including postage from some web shop. They try to get €300 for their used one that has been on the shelf without any care or service done from when they bought it, "only 20 dives" they say, but don't mention that it has been 10 years since the last one.

 

[taimen]

in anycase if there are no history for previous servicing from a official technician and failure happens this brand can totally say that you modified diy repair and no more responsabilities from them.

Certainly the manufacturer will wash its hands if equipment has not been serviced by an authorized technician (but they should not be able to void warranty for their own manufacturing defects, only for the damages caused by unauthorized serivicing/repairs).

But what do you expect? Scuba equipment will fail, sooner or later. That is why you carry redundant equipment. There is not much manufacturer responsibility in scuba accidents anyway.

 

[Olariuas]

I often see people selling used unserviced regulators and ask a higher price than what i can buy the same regulator new for on the internet.

Some people are clueless, they see their LDS ask €500+ for a regulator that you can buy for €250 including postage from some web shop. They try to get €300 for their used one that has been on the shelf without any care or service done from when they bought it, "only 20 dives" they say, but don't mention that it has been 10 years since the last one.

I do hope people are more carefull and request at least to know when the regulator was purchased, pr more informations.
but indeed you can never know how honest is someone. also you can't proof it was serviced right ? I mean what authorized technician do to let the manufacturer know that regulator was serviced or not- a serial id or something ? How to proof if you DIY ?

 

[Magnus Lundstedt]

How to proof if you DIY ?

I do only DIY for myself, so I do not need "proof".

But I keep a logbook where i have recorded number of dives and in what configuration, date of service and inspection or adjustments and what IP al of my regulators is set to.