10 years old

[gypsyjim]

I'll put it this way: from the time they first certified I felt extremely comfortable diving with my 2 kids. At 11 my son was not physically strong enough to "rescue my a**" in a really serious situation, that is true, but he was well trained, observant and careful. He and his older sister let me have it with both barrels if they saw me cutting any corners, and other older divers who have since had the chance to dive with them have confirmed my opinion of the kids safety and abilities. They never did anything to endanger themselves or others, and even at a young age they showed that they were observant of the actions of another diver and could be of assistance if someone needed even if they could not "rescue" a truely distressed diver.

I spent quite a bit of time looking for the right people to train my kids. I willingly drove three hours each way for every lesson, because I felt that it was not just a case of my kids becoming certified; they were being introduced to a sport that demanded their complete dedication because that sport is inherently dangerous if done without a real understanding of the possible hazards.

Now compare this with my 50+ gf. She is much more mature, sure, and much stronger than my son was at 11, but she will never be half the diver my 2 teenagers were from day one, and there is no way she could be my "savior" if things went south. That's a fact. Sometimes when I'm diving with "grownups" I find that I am completely responsible for the safety of both divers.

Ultimately it is myself and only myself that is responsible for my safety diving, and at all times I have to be ready and able to get myself out of any situation, without being dependant on the actions of whatever diver I may be "buddied" with at the time!!!!!

It is the person; that person's sense of responsibility to the safety of themselves and others, the ability to learn and comprehend lessons, and the willingness to really listen to an instructor that makes someone a good candidate for learning to scuba dive, not their calendar age.
Of course all this is just my personal opinion

 

[adurso]

Nothing beats the feeling of spending time underwater with your kids watching them experience things most of the world never gets to see....

 

[Guba]

I was taught that only RESCUE divers should try to rescue.
I would not try to bring up a body that was not breathing..
so what is the scenario you are suggesting?
Buddy found lying with no bubbles. un responsive. Mark the spot, do a safe ascent and get help.
Buddy OOA? I think any 10 yr old can do that for you.


Trust me, I'm not trying to convince a parent that his/her child should not be trained as a diver. However, as a water safety instructor, I've seen kids placed in situations that raised a few eyebrows AFTER a situation popped up. These should have been on the radar screen long before they happened. As to the questions/situations you mentioned...
First, particularly for children, emotions often override even the best training. Let's say a parent/child buddy team is diving and the parent has an extreme emergency, say, unconsciousness. Do you really think the child will not attempt to rescue, even if it means placing themselves in jeopardy? I feel most kids would stick to the parent even if they are not physically capable of performing the rescue, regardless of whether their parent was breathing or not. This means the child very well might endanger their own lives in attempting to effect the rescue. Even if the child does abandon their parent, that now means you have a ten-year old solo diver in a VERY stressful set of conditions.
As for finding an unresponsive body...who's talking about that? I'm referring to a kid swimming alongside his mom or dad when something extreme happens to the adult. Obviously, I'm not referring to a simple OOA situation, either. So what COULD possibly happen that might jeopardize both the adult and the child? Oh, I don't know, perhaps an undeserved DCS hit that causes extreme confusion and disorientation (seen that one), a catastrophic sudden-onset attack that renders the adult unconscious, such as a heart attack or cerebral aneurism, (seen both of those, too), or perhaps major vertigo accompanied by extreme pain in the middle ear that rendered the diver nearly paralyzed (yup, also saw that). In each of these cases, having a full-sized adult partner was a definite benefit, and I'm just not convinced that most ten year olds would have had what it took to provide the required assistance.
As I suggested previously, until the child reaches significant stature it might be best to enjoy the underwater experience as members of a three person team, two of which are adults. Of course, it's only a suggestion.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

When you say you taught him, but he isn't certified... That's probably a little easier to accomplish when you are an instructor.

My son will be 11 soon, and honestly the one thing that has been holding me back with him starting OW training is simply that I haven't found the instructor for him locally. I'm told my standards and expectations are to high. OTOH, he is my son.

I do like your thought processes, though, in terms of expectations of water skills, etc. which tracks pretty closely to what I have been trying to do with my son. We just don't have access to water that is warm enough and deep enough to do what I'd call proper freediving practice (the best we have in the winter is a 13' pool).

OBTW, I LOVED the video clip where your son is doing the maskless buddy breathing drill. WOW!

Thanks! An excellent skill (or call it a game) is to have the kid ditch all his snorkeling stuff in the deep end and then swim up, rest and then swim down, put the fins and mask on, clear the mask and then ALSO clear the snorkel when he gets to the surface. If that is too easy (after a while) have them swim 20 feet horizontally underwater and then retreive the gear. Or make it harder and make them clear their mask remove it, clear it again and then clear the snorkel, all on one breath.

Kids seem to love these type of silly challenges, but it teaches them invaluable lessons about how to move efficiently, to handle stress, airway control and confidence.

Here is a clip of his older brother at 11 hunting, He is better at spearing than I am at videotaping. He's in about 24 feet of water.


YouTube - 11 yrd old freedive hunter

 

[Sam Miller III]

An example of diver who began diving early in life;

Dr. Sam Miller, IV was born into a pioneer Orange county, California diving family. He began his diving career as a toddler at about 2 years old in the bath tub sucking on a modified regulator, by 4 the "Do-boy" pool at 5 into the family pool and then the Pacific, in the beginning not to deep or too far from the beach, but he was underwater and he was a diver in his mind. He rapidly progressed in his diving skills and grew in stature.. Prior to reaching his 10 birthday he had logged 100+ open water dives, on his 12 birth day he dove to 130 ( oops! depth gauge was in error was to have been 100 feet)

At the ripe old age of 11 he also made his first dive in a Mark V helmet, the KM and Swindel hard hats at the Commercial Diving center in Wilmington-- he was large for his age and his instructor dad fibbed a bit!

During the summer of his 12th birthday he was accepted and successfully completed the US Divers Equipment repair course under Bryan Miller, now the east coast US Divers sales representative. Because of his youth and excitement for diving he became a favorite of John Cronin, US Divers president and founder of PADI who presented him with a new set of equipment and several US Divers shirts. A few weeks later JY Cousteau sent him a personally autographed book

In high school he was an outstanding student, campus leader and athlete. He was active in his church and scouting became an Eagle scout.

One of his high school biology classes required a human performance experiment. Sam IV chose scuba diving fin performance. He contacted the manufactures who provided him ample test fins. He developed a performance testing machine and established test criteria. He enlisted his youthful diving buddies and dad as test subjects. His 15 page evaluation report was given the grade of A+.

Concurrently he was active in SoCal diving circles. He was accepted as a full member of the famous Long Beach Neptunes Spear fishing club, the second oldest and most restrictive membership diving club in US

His talents and contributions were recognized when at age18 he became the youngest diver listed in "Whos who of scuba Diving" by the Academy of Marine Science and Undersea research .

At Long Beach State (LBS) he studied graduated with a degree in Micro-biology. During his tenure at LBS he was an associate investigator on "Oil consuming bacteria"

During his college weekends he was a deck hand on the dive boat "Golden Doubloon" and in his spare time made and sold custom wood spear guns. His ingenuity and skill was acknowledged in Skin Diver Magazine by the late E. R. Cross.

Prior to entering medical school he was employed as a micro biologist. He set the national Microbiology board and was awarded the title of "Professional Microbiologist"

He began his diving career with 2 hose regulators. Over the years has amassed a rather presentable collection of these antiques. Therefore, it was logical that he become a charter member and active in the Historical Diving Society when it was established.

He also became a NAUI (Life) and PADI instructor and taught SCUBA at one of the largest southern California dive shops.

He convinced the corporate authorities of the dive shop to donate 24 scuba units to established one of the first, Scuba Boy Scout troops in the US. He became and acted as a hands on scout master until he entered medical school

He applied and won the the NAUI scholarship for the 2 week long Catalina chamber course and became chamber qualified technician

While waiting to enter Medical school he began Tec- Mixed Gas diving and made a number of dives in excess of 300 feet on a regular basis off the California coast.

While attending Medical school he was elected student body President for all four years.
He interned in Dayton Ohio and was appointed Chief intern. Upon completion he moved to Arizona for 4 years of ER residency. Dr. Sam IV successfully completed his ER residency, moved to San Diego and began a Hyperbarric/Diving medicine fellowship at Scripps hospital which was completed in July 2008.

Dr. Sam IV is now a Hyperbaric/ER doctor at Marion hospital in Santa Maria California

He is also the diving Medical officer for the San Luis Obispo County "Underwater search and recovery team".

He was awarded the prestigious SSI Platinum Pro 5000 dive award in October 2007 at DEMA. Sam IV and his father Dr. Sam111 are one of the very few father & son to be so honored in the history of the Pro 5000

Sam IV is an exemplary human and a outstanding veteran diver who has certainly distinguished him self in his professional life and in his leisure activity of recreational diving

 

[gypsyjim]

C'mon Sam, didn't the family know Sam was too young?

 

[HBO MD]

I have absolutely no doubt that there is nothing more wonderful than accompanying your kids upon an amazing adventure and having your own eyes opened once more through their experiences.
I am dismayed however, that the potential medical concerns have not been discussed in any great depth and that we are more drawn to the sense of adventure and wonderment rather than to the potential physiological consequences. This is obviously an unpopular stance in light of what has been shared here in this thread. Nevertheless, the potential impact upon bone growth, immature brains and nervous systems, hearing, eustachian tubes etc, are not something that can easily be dismissed : or perhaps they can?
While thoughtful decision making is reflected by all here, I still would not personally encourage kids to dive until early teens based upon potential for harm. Many parents will argue, "So there's no harm and once again lack of available science impacts on reason". However, "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence." And the subclinical impact of diving in children has yet to be fully elucidated. Further, unlike many other countries, diving courses are commenced in the absence of medicals determining risk and suitability for diving. I would therefore strongly suggest that parents at least think of having the children examined prior to embarking on courses.
No doubt another unpopular suggestion, however in the interest of a long and safe diving life, it would potentially be of value.
Safe diving.

 

[J.R.]

I have absolutely no doubt that there is nothing more wonderful than accompanying your kids upon an amazing adventure and having your own eyes opened once more through their experiences.
I am dismayed however, that the potential medical concerns have not been discussed in any great depth and that we are more drawn to the sense of adventure and wonderment rather than to the potential physiological consequences.

Last I heard the *potential* medical concerns... if there really are any, are unclear at best. Dive Training magazine did an article on the topic and the conclusions were less than conclusive... there was some good basic advise regarding the fact that kids loose body heat faster (particularly young girls)... but points out that's easy to address.

... as far as "psychological consequences"... wow... like what? I come from a family that doesn't swim (nobody's quite sure why I developed gills... the betting line is that I was actually adopted...)... they're very uncomfortable around water or boats... their children likewise share the parent's "phobia"... "psychological impact" of NOT being adventurous can be equally noxious.

However, "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence." And the subclinical impact of diving in children has yet to be fully elucidated. .

... can't argue with this... but it's not the fact that is at issue but rather it's use. Should we reject EVERYTHING who's exact parameters and impacts are not known to us indetail?

No... when the medical comunity comes out with hard provable fact I'll factor that in... until that time, as long a we're playing a guessing game I'll play that MY guess is a good as yours... my psychological choice as regards myself is probably better than yours...

... and in the end, my council is still, as long as THE CHILD is good with what's going on they should be allowed to explore their boundaries... complete with stubbed toes, bruises, bumps and failures... those are oftem much more relevant to complete development than constantly being "safe" by somebody else's standards...

... where I draw the line with teaching children is more about realizing the parent's dreams rather than the childs... I really don't care what mommy and daddy want... if junior isn't ready to dive... junior will get that message across... and junior's wishes should, in my opinion, be respected.

 

[friscuba]

I'll chime in. I've certified a few 10 year olds, and worked with others that just weren't up to it. The "maturity" issue is a tough one... nearly every parent thinks their kid is mature for their age, sometimes it's not the case.

The first question I'd ask is.... height and weight, next would be is the child on swim team, next would be grades. Big, bright and active for their age and you've got a decent shot at the kid doing well the first time out. Tiny kids have a tough time of it, part of it's strength, but a lot of it's other development, I'm finding the kids under 5' and 100/110 pounds or so have more ear troubles than the bigger kids. Swim team kids usually do great, but I had a 10 year old gal recently that was a swim team kid that's probably brighter than half the kids graduating from high school these days that was just so tiny it wasn't going to work for her, everything was a physical struggle... her reaction was really cool, along the lines of really happy she tried but maybe she should wait a couple years.

Some kids just aren't up to the academics just yet. The course was written for 12/13 year olds, yet some adults can't handle it. They didn't really change anything to the course when they dropped the age.

I'd recommend starting with trying pool intros before jumping into the whole course. If it doesn't work out immediately, just wait a year or two and try again... remember, 2 years is a fifth of a lifespan at that age and a two year wait will allow for a LOT of development. I've had parents who think it's hopeless if it doesn't work out the first try at age 10, and others who think only a change of venue is needed and they'll try it back home in 3-4 weeks... they're both likely wrong. Kids will grow into it in general, but you've got to give it some time.

I like the comment above about junior getting the message across... often that's the case... we had one kid last year who got down 5 feet, then came up to the surface, rather calmly, then yelled "I'm too young to be a scuba diver". I think everyone got a kick out of that.

 

[Diver0001]

I'll chime in. I've certified a few 10 year olds, and worked with others that just weren't up to it.

The youngest one I've agreed to teach was 12. There have been several at the shop I work for at this age.

One was small for his age and the sheer weight of the gear was an issue. He also needed to do the CESA 26 (count 'em) 26 times for me before I gave it the thumbs up.

Another one, no matter what I did I could not get across to her why an oil tanker floats and a paper clip sinks. After hours of trying to explain it in every possible way I gave up and concluded that if she was going to get certified I wasn't going to be the one to get it across to her.... (I assumed it was me)

And yet another learned the tables by rote but if I made a simple mistake like skipping a column he was completely unable to think laterally and figure out where I went wrong..... I refused to give him the final exam and another instructor finished it.

at the age of 14 all of these kinds of problems are generally gone.

Yes, there MAY be SOME individuals who can get certified earlier but I stand by my earlier comment that if it were MY kid, they would wait until they were 14.

R..