PADI Advanced Open Water: Did you learn anything new?

[MasterPaul]

I am very unhappy with the "new PADI". When I did my OW in 2012 I received a student pack which included the OW manual and RDP. Now my GF did the OW and received nothing and I did the AOW and received nothing I had to fight with the dive centre afterwards and they eventually sent a code for AOW but it is not even printable or in .pdf format so I can't read it at home. My GF still has no material for refreshing. I feel there is too much cost cutting now and it's producing unsafe divers. Divers are completing courses having only completed half of the total possible sections and have no way of refreshing their knowledge or completing the other sections. I was rushed through 5 review sections in 3 days including 2 dives a day and only learnt 2 sections fully. This is why I feel we should still get student packs including manuals with each course.

 

[Mike1967]

What are your thoughts ?

How often do you look at your manual now? Or use your RDP?
My guess is never.

Btw, if your dive count is right and you've done less than 25 dives in 8 years, you need to get in the water not read books

 

[wgw04024]

Scuba diving in my mind is not something someone should enter in lightly. That being said, nobody wants to shell out thousands of dollars it would take, compensating people fairly for their time, to completely train someone to be an experienced, competent diver (imho). There are lots of good books out there in the realm of increasing your diving knowledge. The course is just the first, very basic, introduction to diving. The agencies are what they are, that's life.

 

[Diving Dubai]

I am very unhappy with the "new PADI". When I did my OW in 2012. I received a student pack which included the OW manual and RDP.
Now my GF did the OW she received nothing and I did the AOW and received nothing.
I had to fight with the dive centre afterwards and they eventually sent a code for AOW but it is not even printable or in .pdf format so I can't read it at home. My GF still has no material for refreshing or further study .
I feel there is too much cost cutting now and it's producing unsafe divers. Divers are completing courses having only completed half of the total possible sections and have no way of refreshing their knowledge or completing the other sections.
I was rushed through 5 review sections in 3 days including 2 dives a day and only learnt 2 sections fully. This is why I feel we should still get student packs including manuals with each course.
What are your thoughts ?

Certainly in the Old days, courses did include a "crewpak" containing manuals and RDP (I had tables)

We've moved on since

While some courses still do have a Pack (manuals and DVD) most of the Basic Rec courses have moved onto eLearning, which is either sold via teh shop or separately from PADI

Manuals go out of date, are costly to print and distribute and not environmentally friendly

The RDP has been retired given most people use Dive computers

AoW is just a set of experience dives, however I use each dive to improve my students basic skills, esp buoyancy and trim. I also refresh basic OW skills like mask and reg. You'd be surprised how many students feel that once they've done these skills as part of OW they never need to do them again. Buddy checks are a classic.

Since its part mentoring a Student show be proactive in telling the instructor what additional items they want/need to work on

 

[DevilEyeDog]

I have only been diving for 3 years, but I have heard that PADI has drastically changed their OW program from years ago. I went through a smaller organization called IDEA for my OW and then PADI for my AOW, Nitrox and subsequent other certs. IDEA Scuba lessons Instructor Crossover I am grateful to IDEA which comprised of 6 in-classroom classes for 1.5 hours and then 1.5 hours of pool sessions (yes, 9 hours of pool sessions and 9 hours of in-classroom) PLUS 6 open water dives. I actually thought that was how all organizations were and since PADI was the more expensive class (by a lot) I assumed it was because of their excellent reputation. I had held PADI as this esteemed exclusive club that must be the best. When I started diving I had so many people tell me that IDEA was not a real organization and that it wasn't as good. Imagine my surprise when I found out what PADI certified divers had to do to get certified. In speaking to my diving friends who have been diving for 20+ years PADI has gone from a similar model to IDEA (apparently they use to require weeks of in-classroom and more pool session) to the cookie cutter churn them out model they have today. Unfortunately, I think part of this are the people. People don't want IDEA. They want it NOW and FAST and get me under the water ASAP. PADI is successful because if you want a certification you can get one in just two days if not one day! IDEA is not as successful. They are a smaller organization dedicated to churning out more skilled and safer divers, but very few people want to dedicate eight days and 18 hours of training. That said, I think we all agree the 18 hour model is what's needed if you want a safer and better diver. I went with IDEA on cost alone ($300 cheaper than PADI at the time) and am so glad I did. The foundation that was laid for me was way better then any of my PADI divers. Do I think PADI is a joke when it comes to safety and education? Yes, I do. Do I think it's the most effective business model for making money. Absolutely. While all my other certs have been PADI since I would not recommend them for initial OW if an individual wants to truly learn about scuba diving. Would I recommend them if you just want to get under the water quickly without much knowledge? Yes.

 

[Zef]

I have only been diving for 3 years, but I have heard that PADI has drastically changed their OW program from years ago. I went through a smaller organization called IDEA for my OW and then PADI for my AOW, Nitrox and subsequent other certs. IDEA Scuba lessons Instructor Crossover I am grateful to IDEA which comprised of 6 in-classroom classes for 1.5 hours and then 1.5 hours of pool sessions (yes, 9 hours of pool sessions and 9 hours of in-classroom) PLUS 6 open water dives. I actually thought that was how all organizations were and since PADI was the more expensive class (by a lot) I assumed it was because of their excellent reputation. I had held PADI as this esteemed exclusive club that must be the best. When I started diving I had so many people tell me that IDEA was not a real organization and that it wasn't as good. Imagine my surprise when I found out what PADI certified divers had to do to get certified. In speaking to my diving friends who have been diving for 20+ years PADI has gone from a similar model to IDEA (apparently they use to require weeks of in-classroom and more pool session) to the cookie cutter churn them out model they have today. Unfortunately, I think part of this are the people. People don't want IDEA. They want it NOW and FAST and get me under the water ASAP. PADI is successful because if you want a certification you can get one in just two days if not one day! IDEA is not as successful. They are a smaller organization dedicated to churning out more skilled and safer divers, but very few people want to dedicate eight days and 18 hours of training. That said, I think we all agree the 18 hour model is what's needed if you want a safer and better diver. I went with IDEA on cost alone ($300 cheaper than PADI at the time) and am so glad I did. The foundation that was laid for me was way better then any of my PADI divers. Do I think PADI is a joke when it comes to safety and education? Yes, I do. Do I think it's the most effective business model for making money. Absolutely. While all my other certs have been PADI since I would not recommend them for initial OW if an individual wants to truly learn about scuba diving. Would I recommend them if you just want to get under the water quickly without much knowledge? Yes.

Holy Moly....lots of good info but too hard to read...please use some formatting like line spacing to break up thoughts as this is a jumbled burden to read.

-Z

 

[loosenit2]

i disagree with many other sentiments on this thread thus far. PADI has two options for learning, a traditional book supported method and the e-learning model. My daughter did the traditional method last year, was given a crew pack that included book, RDP, and RDP manual; she was given a DVD with the basic instruction to watch in-conjunction with reading the book and completing knowledge reviews. When that was complete she took test, did pool sessions and then open water dives.

Alternatively she could have done the e-learning, which as others have pointed out in other threads is not meant to be a "less expensive" option, in fact it is slightly more expensive but is more convenient. In the e-learning model you do all the work, knowledge reviews etc on a computer or iPAD before doing the pool work and open water dives.

As for referencing books after the fact I still have my OW, AOW, and Rescue books from doing them in the early 90s, I have gone back and looked at them from time to time as reference, and compared some of the content to my daughters OW book to see what changed. In addition I have found value in reading a couple of Powell's excellent books on technical diving. Obviously others may not do this but I tend to think there is value in having books, or in the case of e-learning access to the e-learning in perpetuity for refreshing yourself.

From what the OP wrote it does not appear there is a problem with the PADI model but with this particular shops implementation of it. The world is replete with bad instructors and I am sorry you got one.

 

[Mike1967]

While all my other certs have been PADI since I would not recommend them for initial OW if an individual wants to truly learn about scuba diving.

We've heard it a thousand times but I'll say it again, it's all about the instructor not the agency. I believe the opposite, PADI is fine for OW, AOW, Nitrox etc but for anything tec then TDI is the go.

 

[Colliam7]

I think your level of unhappiness should be directed at the dive shop(s) involved. Manuals are still being produced by PADI, they are readily available for those who wish to use paper instead of digital manuals. Yes, more and more divers are expressing a preference for digital rather than paper, and PADI - and virtually every training agency - is responding to that demand, by increasing digital offerings. But, why did the shop, through which you did AOW, not provide a manual, if that is the format you wanted? Why did the shop through which your GF completed OW not provide a manual, if that is the format she wanted? As you note, your GF 'had to fight with the dive centre'. That is where the issue resides, and is not related to a 'new PADI'.

 

[Zef]

We've heard it a thousand times but I'll say it again, it's all about the instructor not the agency. I believe the opposite, PADI is fine for OW, AOW, Nitrox etc but for anything tec then TDI is the go.

I think it is a shame that the there is such a wide spectrum quality of instruction under the umbrella of PADI's name. It is as if there is no real standard.

The first course I took under PADI was Rescue Diver.....there was no class instruction. For whatever reason our crew packs did not come with the video but the instructor had the disk. All he did was insert the video and hit play, the rest of the classroom time was spent with him read looking over our knowledge review answers.

In the pool and in open water he just walked us through the scenarios as listed on the instructor cards/slates he carried. There was zero experience, zero instruction, nada...it was **** class but it fulfilled a need of obtaining the certification card to move on to other training.

There was nothing covered in the PADI rescue class that was not already covered in much more detail during both my NAUI AOW course and my NAUI Master Diver course.

My problem with PADI is that the knowledge side of things is significantly dumbed down and the quality of the whole program is too dependent on the instructor....the quality of the instructor is going to be almost entirely based on the quality of their experience and their instructor training.

I hold professional certifications as an Alpine Ski instructor, as swim coach, and as a dive professional. For skiing and swimming, I have to do continuing education at regular intervals to maintain my credentials. For PADI, there is no required continuing education, no periodic evaluation, nothing...as long as you pay your dues and have professional liability insurance you are good to go. PADI seems to have nothing in place to ensure consistency of training or that instructors are providing quality instruction except if a student complains. Seems kind of shoddy given the high risk nature if Scuba is done wrong.

-Z