Hello darkness, my new friend - A week in Mexico

[elgoog]

"Arm up. Big loop up and around. Back down in front of me. Nope, nothing. Scootch forward a bit. Man, I can FEEL the silt I'm stirring up. Arm up. Big loop around. Ow. Did the back of my hand just hit something? Frick, those scalloped rocks are sharp. Wait, how did I hit it on the upward movement? There's no way I'm near the ceiling. Did she drop me below the shelf the line's on? She did, didn't she?"

*record scratch*
*freeze frame*

How did I end up here? I'm gonna blame a YouTube video - I can't remember exactly which one but it was of a cave diver in Nohoch Nah Chich. That led to other cave diving videos (a lot of them) which led to me lurking on cave diving forums which led to thinking (for over a year) about doing it and then to finally getting the training.

I went to Mexico for a week to learn from Natalie Gibb of Under the Jungle with a pretty open mind and no particular goal. Depending on how I did and how much I actually liked being in an overhead environment, I had decided that I would do guided cavern dives, the Cavern course or at most up to Intro to Cave.

I wrote a report on my blog and am far too lazy to copy-paste it here so you'll have to go there if you're interested in an account prone to hyperbole. This post is meant to complement the blog and is more about what my thinking was regarding a bunch of decisions I made about the training and my overall thoughts about it.

The instructor
Nat has a great reputation online and I personally know quite a few divers from my local GUE group who train and regularly dive with her. She is super flexible about how to go about the training which was important to me because, honestly, I didn't really know how much I would like it and having the choices I did made me feel a lot better.

Sidemount vs backmount
I dive BM at home and have no reason to change that. Nat is known for SM but my thinking was that I'm going there to learn how to dive caves from her, not how to dive a specific configuration. I had discussed this with her in detail before the trip and was glad that we were both on the same page. After a week of diving, I can confirm that there were zero issues with her being in SM and me in BM. If anything, I learned what to look for from a buddy who is in SM so that was a bonus.
As far as the layout of the caves themselves and SM being "needed" in Mexico, I think my tolerance for being comfortable in a passage is going to be a limiting factor long before BM will be and there's tons of cave even at the Full Cave level to keep a BM tourist cave diver like me pretty busy.

The training
For reference, I have never been in an overhead, am a Fundies grad, regularly dive doubles+drysuit and completed Intro to Cave in 5 days (with a shakeout day before the class to get used to the new tanks).
It is a LOT of new stuff going on in addition to being able to just dive (buoyancy, trim, position, propulsion, etc) at a fairly high level. The diving part needs to be close to automatic if you want to do the cave stuff well. You're still likely to make a mess of it but the learning curve would be prohibitively steep if you don't have your act together. I'll admit I was pretty nervous about being in the overhead and am a conservative diver but just keeping track of the line and making sure I was paying attention to my buddy's light took up pretty much all of my bandwidth. I darn near had an aneurysm the first time it hit me that I had to drop a marker on the line. It definitely got better as the week progressed but it's still something I had to consciously think about. Handling the reel for the first time was it's own special clusterfudge.
From posts here, it seems like the Cavern portion is treated as the Fundies/ITT equivalent by divers who live near caves. I can't fathom how they manage it - I would have floundered without my Fundies skills and >100 dives after Fundies to get better at them. Similarly, going straight to Full Cave is also difficult to imagine. Personally, I think I'll need a bunch of week long trips of diving the mainline before I feel confident enough to move forward.

In my week there, I dove at Eden (Ponderosa and River Run), Chikin Ha (both cavern lines), Aktun Ha (Carwash cavern), Tajma Ha (goldline and Sagrado line), Mayan Blue (A and B tunnels) and Nohoch Nah Chich (mainline upstream). It was pretty amazing how uniquely beautiful they all were. I could go back there for a week, repeat the exact same dives and still be really happy about it.

I was also super stoked that Nat got some amazing photos with me in Nohoch. It was an amazing graduation dive!!

​

Planning a trip to Florida next and, hopefully, another one back to Mexico before the end of the year. The downside is that my tropical diving destination bucket list schedule is going to take a bit of a hit now. I'm OK with that

- elgoog

 

[sea_otter]

Awesome!! Let's plan a trip. November?

 

[Lorenzoid]

Did you feel the standards were as high as GUE? I'm guessing you would have gone the GUE route if you had the tech upgrade.

 

[The Chairman]

Natalie, aka Mighty Mouse, is a force to be reckoned with. She's probably the most thorough guide I've been with and I've see plenty. If you passed her class, I would dive with you anywhere.

 

[elgoog]

Did you feel the standards were as high as GUE?

I thought about this quite a bit during the class and after and it's an interesting comparison because of how different my own abilities were during GUE classes (flopping, flailing, thrashing) compared to during Intro (not those things) as well as the environment itself (often surgy ocean vs essentially a pool). I'm guessing you're asking about the standard of instruction and not what's required by TDI vs GUE. It's hard to really nail down a ton of specifics but, honestly, from my experience so far it felt very similar to the GUE classes I've done in terms of the various things that came up, how she was asking me to address them and the overall approach of "you're doing fine but change/try so-and-so to make it better". A lot of the focus was on performing tasks while not moving and being in just the right position relative to the line throughout the entire task. TDI standards don't have any trim or buoyancy requirements but basically that's what she was asking for in these tasks and constantly trying to get me to refine them. Same with even the simple things like kicks, S-drills and valve drills. I got a lot of focussed feedback on what I was doing and it was a lot easier to implement that feedback because I wasn't getting tossed around in the ocean or having to deal with dry gloves, thick undies, etc. I'm noticing that I'm already moving a lot slower than before and also incorporating the finer adjustments I needed to make in a cave when I go ocean diving, so it's improved my diving in general as well.
I guess the real comparison would happen if/when I do a GUE cave class but, in my sample size of 1 GUE and 1 TDI instructor, I think the standards, expectations and teaching abilities are on par.

I'm guessing you would have gone the GUE route if you had the tech upgrade.

I don't think so - for me, the GUE route was a viable choice only once I knew for sure I actually wanted to pursue cave diving. The mental aspect of never having been in an overhead and not knowing whether I would like it or not was huge and is difficult to convey (especially because I had a lot of anxiety and no fun being in some sea caves and reefs with swimthroughs while diving in the tropics). I didn't want to commit $2.5-3k on the C1 class, realize it wasn't for me and then have to write that money off. The way my week with Nat was structured was that I could stop any time I wanted and only pay through then. I breathed a huge sigh of relief after the fun cavern dive on the first day (she did too - we had a laugh about that later) and decided I did, in fact, like it.

 

[halocline]

Nice trip report. I did intro to cave there as well, working some with Nat and some with Vince, and I've been back a few times just to dive on the mainline. I think it's a good idea to practice the skills and develop the right habits before going on to full. It's so shallow that I've been able to get nice long dives even at the intro level.

 

[Lorenzoid]

I thought about this quite a bit during the class and after and it's an interesting comparison because of how different my own abilities were during GUE classes (flopping, flailing, thrashing) compared to during Intro (not those things) as well as the environment itself (often surgy ocean vs essentially a pool). I'm guessing you're asking about the standard of instruction and not what's required by TDI vs GUE. It's hard to really nail down a ton of specifics but, honestly, from my experience so far it felt very similar to the GUE classes I've done in terms of the various things that came up, how she was asking me to address them and the overall approach of "you're doing fine but change/try so-and-so to make it better". A lot of the focus was on performing tasks while not moving and being in just the right position relative to the line throughout the entire task. TDI standards don't have any trim or buoyancy requirements but basically that's what she was asking for in these tasks and constantly trying to get me to refine them. Same with even the simple things like kicks, S-drills and valve drills.

Yes, that's what I was asking about: whether Nat demands the skills be performed at more or less the same trim/buoyancy/motionless standards for a Fundies tech pass.

for me, the GUE route was a viable choice only once I knew for sure I actually wanted to pursue cave diving. The mental aspect of never having been in an overhead and not knowing whether I would like it or not was huge and is difficult to convey (especially because I had a lot of anxiety and no fun being in some sea caves and reefs with swimthroughs while diving in the tropics). I didn't want to commit $2.5-3k on the C1 class, realize it wasn't for me and then have to write that money off. The way my week with Nat was structured was that I could stop any time I wanted and only pay through then. I breathed a huge sigh of relief after the fun cavern dive on the first day (she did too - we had a laugh about that later) and decided I did, in fact, like it.

The cost is definitely a factor for most of us. As I think I mentioned, I took a Cavern class for the reason you mentioned and decided I liked it just fine, but I'm hesitant to continue with Intro until I'm confident I'm performing at a high enough level--which is what a tech pass would tell me. I have easily spent $2-3k just in weekend trips down to FL to work with instructors on honing my skills to tech pass level, and I'm not quite there yet. If I'm really lucky, then at some point I may earn the privilege of being allowed to spend $2.5-3k on a C1 class. Are we crazy?

I'm watching the path you're taking with interest. And the questions you must be asking yourself. Do you now switch back to the GUE route and take C1, or do you just continue to improve your cave diving skills by, you know, going cave diving.

 

[elgoog]

Yes, that's what I was asking about: whether Nat demands the skills be performed at more or less the same trim/buoyancy/motionless standards for a Fundies tech pass.

I thought so. One example that came up more than once was my position while tying in the primary reel, dropping markers, etc. I have a tendency to want to be close to what I'm doing .i.e. horizontal-ish but elbows bent and starting with the line/reel/marker about 1.5ft from me. What always happened was I ended up getting my face closer and closer to the "thing" till it was a few inches from me which meant I dropped about a foot. I wasn't touching the cave or getting in bad orientations but Nat still kept asking me to improve on that by not bending my elbows as much and starting and ending the task in the same position. To me, looking at making corrections in the 1ft or so range seems like tech pass level stuff. Not that I was able to 100% make the finer adjustments she asked for, but still ...

The cost is definitely a factor for most of us. As I think I mentioned, I took a Cavern class for the reason you mentioned and decided I liked it just fine, but I'm hesitant to continue with Intro until I'm confident I'm performing at a high enough level--which is what a tech pass would tell me. I have easily spent $2-3k just in weekend trips down to FL to work with instructors on honing my skills to tech pass level, and I'm not quite there yet. If I'm really lucky, then at some point I may earn the privilege of being allowed to spend $2.5-3k on a C1 class.

The cost was a factor this time only because I didn't want the money to go to waste if I decided to drop out of the course. That would have bothered me no end and to the point where I would have been in the wrong frame of mind but tried to do it anyway. That sounds like a bad combo in a cave and one I wanted to avoid. Now that I know I want to cave dive, I don't have any hesitation spending that kind of money.

Are we crazy?

- Spend thousands of dollars on equipment, trips, training
- Put on a drysuit in hot-as-b8lls conditions
- Strap on 100+lb of gear
- Crawl into a hole and swim away from light and breathable air while relying on a glorified piece of twine to get back out

By most peoples' standards - yeah. But they never get to see all the cool stuff we do so I think it evens out.

I'm watching the path you're taking with interest. And the questions you must be asking yourself. Do you now switch back to the GUE route and take C1, or do you just continue to improve your cave diving skills by, you know, going cave diving.

Yeah, I think about this a lot even though, for me, I think it'll be quite a while before I need to make the "switch to GUE" or "continue with TDI" decision. The reason I think it'll be a while is that I believe I will be more than happy doing Intro dives in Mexico for at least 4-5 more week long trips, which is 2 years at least. Honestly, I could go back there and do the exact same dives I did during the class and be happy with that trip. And there's tons more cenotes to do Intro level dives at if anyone is the type of diver that doesn't like repeating dives. I'm the opposite - I like doing dives over and over and actually enjoy them more when the site is familiar and I know it kinda well.

Back to the "switch to GUE" vs "continue with TDI" train of thought - As far as level of instruction, I don't see a reason to switch because of that. I'm more than satisfied with Nat and her shop and would not hesitate to continue training with her. The biggest draw with GUE is the access to the community of divers who I could potentially buddy up with. I have this expectation in my head that I would be able to send an email to the GUE list and be able to find a buddy to dive with and, most importantly, who was also a known quantity in terms of skill and mindset. Nat's also trying to set up a group of her students so there's a pool of divers you have access to but it's obviously not going to be as large as GUE. I honestly don't know how realistic it is to be able to coordinate trips like this with out-of-town buddies but I'm hoping this is possible since I would most likely be traveling alone to cave country or the cenotes.

 

[Lorenzoid]

I think it'll be quite a while before I need to make the "switch to GUE" or "continue with TDI" decision. The reason I think it'll be a while is that I believe I will be more than happy doing Intro dives in Mexico for at least 4-5 more week long trips, which is 2 years at least. Honestly, I could go back there and do the exact same dives I did during the class and be happy with that trip. And there's tons more cenotes to do Intro level dives at if anyone is the type of diver that doesn't like repeating dives. I'm the opposite - I like doing dives over and over and actually enjoy them more when the site is familiar and I know it kinda well.

Back to the "switch to GUE" vs "continue with TDI" train of thought - As far as level of instruction, I don't see a reason to switch because of that. I'm more than satisfied with Nat and her shop and would not hesitate to continue training with her. The biggest draw with GUE is the access to the community of divers who I could potentially buddy up with. I have this expectation in my head that I would be able to send an email to the GUE list and be able to find a buddy to dive with and, most importantly, who was also a known quantity in terms of skill and mindset. Nat's also trying to set up a group of her students so there's a pool of divers you have access to but it's obviously not going to be as large as GUE. I honestly don't know how realistic it is to be able to coordinate trips like this with out-of-town buddies but I'm hoping this is possible since I would most likely be traveling alone to cave country or the cenotes.

By "continue with TDI," I was thinking more along the lines of those probably minor differences between Nat's way of doing something and GUE's way. My concern is that GUE often seems to want things done in a specific way, which may not be the way other agencies/instructors do them. After 4-5 more week-long trips, will you really be receptive to changing how you do things if they're taught differently in C1? Then again, I suppose it wouldn't be that big a deal to learn to do some things slightly differently if your C1 instructor insists. As far as I can tell, the fundamentals of cave diving are the same across all agencies/instructors. If you have those down pat, I would assume you could adjust the details to suit whether your teammates want to do something GUE's way or another way. Most GUE divers I have met are happy to dive with non-GUE-trained divers of similar "skill and mindset."

The GUE list is definitely a nice resource to have. There always seems to be someone looking for teammates.

 

[hellohalocline]

Great post...the details were so helpful, and one of the several reasons I signed up for sidemount and cavern classes at Under the Jungle! So excited!! Cave certification is the ultimate goal, so I really enjoyed your story.