BP/W’s finally make it to the big time!

[LakeCountyDiver]

You are a top runner for the worlds most knowledgeable dive historian

[U]"BP/W originated on the internet"
[/U]
I recall owning and diving a BP/W long before the advent of the internet

.

:clapping: I'm glad someone could prove it with experience. I wasn't diving back them but I do know the history and it dates back before the internet.

 

[Rooster59]

Here's an old thread that's fun to read:

Who invented the first backplate and wing?

This may be a good thesis topic for a PhD in Scubatechology

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

Eric put his big foot in his stupid mouth once again. Time for me disappear for about six months.
Out.

 

[Scott]

A review of the diving catalogs of 1990 reveal the following BIUs

1) Sea Tec Sea horse BIU # 1016-0061 - Page 4

2) Sea Pro (at Pac) -Page 2
a) At Pac
b) Freedom Pac
c) Travel Pac

3) Zeagle - page 4 &5
a) Alpha BIU
b) Beta BIU
c) Advent BIU
d) Speed Pac BIU
f) Alpha Speed Pac BIU

The BIUs were being produced and marketed in 1990

Sam Miller. III


.

Pull out the old SeaQuest catalog from the early 80's. SeaQuest had a horseshoe style wing that attached to a plate. I may still have one in the basement.
When did the At Pac first come out? Had to be 70's

 

[drk5036]

Eric put his big foot in his stupid mouth once again. Time for me disappear for about six months.
Out.

I think the only problem was saying *originated* ...but saying popularized, which is what I think you meant, is probably correct. Of course the idea of BP/W's aren't new, but their use for purely rec divers IS new, and it's something that CAN be attributed to the internet. Without the internet's influence on diving, that article wouldn't have been written, which I think is clear to say.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

What I meant, was the second coming of the plate and wing concept is a product of the internet as it applies to it’s recent popularity globally outside of the east coast wreck and cave community.
I’m not stupid and I know the history probably better than most people but obviously not as good as the walking talking encylopedia known as Sam Miller. Yes I know that back PACK’s have been around since the middle of the last century in one form or another. I know about At-packs and all the rest if the stuff of that era. If you think I’m stupid then you’re stupid, where do you think I get my ideas for my own plates??

Here the thing.
There was a time in history when there was not a back pack or pack/wing style rig to be found anywhere in any dive shop. If you got certified during the period of time after the popularity of back packs then you might never had known such a thing ever exsisted. That stuff was fased out faster than a flood and was gone in a matter of a few short years. Poodle jackets were in and that’s was the new direction.
Also, back in the at-pack days, if you were to ask for a “BP/W” using the intitials as shown nobody would have known what the hell you were talking about. The initials “BP/W” refers to the modern iteration of the concept.

So the first run of the back pack concept gets phased out and poodle jackets are in. Meanwhile the east coast wreck divers are experimenting and a guy fashions what becomes the modern version of a doubles plate out of an aluminum stop sign. That design gets developed by OMS, Dive Rite, then Halcyon, and I’m sure several others incuding home builds. So when did the internet start? Think back.
Prior to that how would the information have spread. Just seeing the stuff in the Leisure Pro catalog would have NOT indicated that it was useable for single tank recreational diving. It was not until it was talked about on the internet that people realized it could be adapted for single talk use. Believe it or not, the DIR movement had everything to do with the popularization of using BP/W’s for ALL diving. I would have never known any of this or about DIR if I didn’t read about it on the INTERNET! (BTW I’m not DIR and never have been) just sayin’

When did the first STA come out? When and who put in the first cam band slots into their plates, anybody??
If you were to mention at a dive shop in 1965 or 1974 that you needed an STA for your BP/W do you think they would have known what the hell you are talking about?

This entire conversation is about the modern version of the BP/W, which is different from old packs. There was a big gap of time in between the two.

So what about the article? Do you think it will help promote the modern BP/W? Or not

 

[txgoose]

I seem to recall a hard hat thread where the know it alls didn’t know it all.

This thread took an odd turn. So glad that Eric now knows about diving history before the internet. /sarcasm

 

[kmarks]

So what about the article? Do you think it will help promote the modern BP/W? Or not

I think it will. I think a lot of people have never even seen such or thing or, like me, thought it was some relic of the '70s the first time they saw it. As I said earlier, the shop I trained with was a pretty independent shop and the owner sold what he liked. He and his buddies were big fans of the Halcyon BP/W so they carried that for sale as well as part of the rental fleet (I rented one my first dive after OW). But for simplicity and conformity, instructors used the same jackets as the students during training, with the exception of a guy named Big Jeff. Big Jeff was rather, well, Big, and didn't fit in the jackets, so he wore his tech rig with the SS plate, wing, and harness. He was there as an assistant instructor during our second pool session and our lead instructors spent about 20 minutes explaining the BP/W and long hose primary donate concepts to us before we got in the pool that morning because they wanted to make sure people wouldn't freak out if they saw such a thing "in the wild." Some of us even practiced with Big Jeff on the primary donate concept underwater later.

BP/W and long hose primary donate is now my gear set up, even though I don't do tech and have no interest in tech or caves, because I saw the benefits of this set up early on. A lot of shops don't deal with BP/W and instructors won't even mention it to OW students. There are several who push jacket BCs as the "safe, modern" way to dive and we have all lost count of how many times we've been told, probably by somebody who has never worn a back inflate or BP/W, but heard from a friend about their cousin's instructor's buddy's brother's issues, that anything but a jacket will push your face into the water on the surface. I get questions, both of interest and confusion, whenever I breakout by BP/W.

Everybody is being way to harsh on Eric. He made a simple mistake in what he was trying to say and I think he cleared it up in a more recent post. Please remember, even though he's not a newbie and can handle it, this is still the Basic Forum.

 

[time2sail]

I believe it boils down to two options -

 

[Rooster59]

So what about the article? Do you think it will help promote the modern BP/W? Or not

I think it will. I also think that dive shops that embrace BP/W might end up being glad they did. I've let other divers use my rig, and every one gave it 2 . One diver asked how much for a new harness, his BC had a cut strap. About $12 for the webbing, reuse the hardware. Shocked. The only negative comment is "Where do you put xxx? You've got no pockets". So what's a middle of the road decent BC go for? ScubaPro Nighthawk is about $650? How many 25 and younger folks are taking up diving? Reduce the price for entry into the sport, increase the number of new divers. More classes, more dive travel. That should be a good thing. If your customer base is older folks with enough spare cash to afford diving, that's not long term sustainable.