Help Choosing The Best Harness!!!

[tbone1004]

what he said, though single tank sidemount is immensely liberating when compared to backmount... also, due to the derailment of this page of the thread, please note that my first post in here said that the razor style harnesses are what I would recommend in this instance. I love my Nomad and think it is one of the best rigs for me, after customization *I have an extra long transpac which makes all the difference in the world*, but it is specialized for the type of diving that I do, which is not what you are indicating you will be doing. My Razor has a place in my diving equipment arsenal, and it comes out when it is the best piece of equipment for the job. For the type of diving you are talking about, it would in fact be the best type of harness for you.

What would be very helpful is if you could tell us where you are currently stationed, where you call home, where you intend on diving, and why you are interested in sidemount in the first place. Note that for the last bit, "because I think it's cool" is a perfectly acceptable response

 

[DevonDiver]

what on earth does that even mean? ....

It means that there is more than one approach to sidemount diving, and sidemount BCD design. As such, it is impossible to state anything like "I would argue that MOST of the cave exploration in sidemount is being done in these so called "subpar" combo rigs because they are actually the preferred rigs for this style of diving," That IS a very regionally focused comment, because in many other areas, such rigs are wholeheartedly rejected.
It'd be kinda like saying "most of cave exploration is done using the imperial system"....

I wrote an article about this some time ago:
The Two Schools of Sidemount Diving Heritage

The 'British/Mexico Cave' school of sidemount is the overwhelmingly most popular approach in warn-water locations where aluminum cylinders are the default. That's most tropical / vacation destinations, including most of Asia, Mexico and below, the Red Sea and Middle East.

The 'American/Florida Cave' school of sidemount is favored where divers use steel cylinders as a default - primarily the USA, but to a lesser degree, Europe also. But even in Europe, the situation is much more 50/50... as there's been a trend towards using the 'British/Mexico Cave' approach (hence rigs from Apeks (UK) and XDeep (Poland). This may have something to do with the fact that European divers will routinely travel overseas to dive (thus prefer a rig that best suits more global sidemount diving), wheras many American divers stick within their own borders...

Back to the OP's original question.... here is some info on 'hybrid' sidemount options:
Top 5 Convertible Hybrid Sidemount Systems

 

[tbone1004]

the what on earth does it mean was directed at his statement of not many dives being done in florida in combo rigs, which is confusing because in Florida it is quite rare to see the razor style units. Yes my comment was Florida-centric regarding exploration and was intended to be because while Mexico may be laying more line, the deep long diving done in Florida would be completely impossible with a Razor

 

[bamafan]

Andy I agree with most of your post except for your conclusion as to why you see a bigger mix of the 2 sidemount systems in Europe vs. the US. I think it has more to do with the thermal protection, tanks and the lift required. In Florida our water is fairly warm 68 -72 deg F. (20-22 C) we do not wear a lot of drysuit undergarments like is required in most of Europe. Very few cave divers wear gloves here. Also I think our tanks are generally heavier than the steel tsnks you see in Europe. Due to these factors as well as the gas requirements required for the Florida caves we generally require more lift. A wing such as the SMS 100 has around 35 lbs (16 kg) of lift and most people I know have to assist it with their drysuit at the start of the dive. I have a Razor harness and I was in Mexico the first of this year. I did a 4 stage dive (6 al 80's ) with a wetsuit and the wing was blown up like a football. It worked but was definitely not streamlined. Now in Florida I could actually carry a greater quantity of gas with 2 lp 120's cave filled and 2 stages. Also with my Armadillo I am definitely more streamlined carrying a greater quantity of gas. I am starting to hear the guys in Mexico complain about the quantities of gas that are required on some of their dives and I have been told sidemount breathers are becoming more popular because of this. In Florida we didn't have sidemount rebreathers when our techniques were being developed so we went with large overfilled steel tanks and stages. I believe this is why you see a difference in the rigs. I really don't believe traveling has hardly anything to do with it.

 

[Razorista]

Now you are arguing influenced by a UK centric view of Europe.
I do not want to say any of it is wrong, but Europe is more than the most vocal diving communities in the UK, Germany and more recently Poland.
There is also Spain and the other Mediterranean countries and Islands, there are lots of thermal springs and power plants releasing cooling water into lakes.
Also: most European divers travel a lot and mostly prefer warmer regions.

From the German viewpoint it happened this way:

DiveRite always had a small market share here so SM rigs where first released to the general public by Hollis with the SMS100.
But they forgot bringing teachers from the US with them.
Training was sub standard at best, results where, as would be expected, also sub-standard.
Sidemount got a bad reputation for about a year between 2010 and '12 with people waiting for imported Razor2 systems, Nomads and Armadillos, while so called 'monkey diving' classes where offered everywhere with sometimes very badly setup SMS rigs.

Most successful first adopters had to train themselves and often tried several systems they bought and sold again at a rapid pace.
The Hollis was easy to acquire, so it was the system most discarded first.
Preferring the harnesses is just a normal evolutionary process.
Since it is a lot easier to get good results using the minimalistic harnesses the majority of the most experienced sidemount divers use harnesses of some kind in Europe now.

In the US this process is slowed by experienced teachers for the more complicated hybrid and old style 'jacket' systems, in Europe they don't exist.
There is also the Toddy sidemount system in Sardinia that is influencing the situation, since it can replace every system, except for the minimalistic harnesses.

Companies like XDeep, located in Poland, have a huge advantage in selling to European customers.
It took gosidemount more than a year to be allowed to sell their system, several still cannot be legally sold by shops in Germany in particular, but also in some other jurisdictions.

Hollis is also very successful but they had bad timing and also there is another point to their portfolio:
In the US many of the sidemount early adopters seem to be broad shouldered and well trained or simply 'large' people.
Here in Germany the majority are diminutive women, under-average men with knee and back injuries and I expect that to be similar in most of Europe.
Hollis sizes simply do not fit Europeans and local particularities well.

To summarize my opinion: It has next to nothing to do with different training or diving styles on this or the other side of the Atlantic.

 

[bamafan]

Now you are arguing influenced by a UK centric view of Europe.
I do not want to say any of it is wrong, but Europe is more than the most vocal diving communities in the UK, Germany and more recently Poland.
There is also Spain and the other Mediterranean countries and Islands, there are lots of thermal springs and power plants releasing cooling water into lakes.
Also: most European divers travel a lot and mostly prefer warmer regions.

From the German viewpoint it happened this way:

DiveRite always had a small market share here so SM rigs where first released to the general public by Hollis with the SMS100.
But they forgot bringing teachers from the US with them.
Training was sub standard at best, results where, as would be expected, also sub-standard.
Sidemount got a bad reputation for about a year between 2010 and '12 with people waiting for imported Razor2 systems, Nomads and Armadillos, while so called 'monkey diving' classes where offered everywhere with sometimes very badly setup SMS rigs.

Most successful first adopters had to train themselves and often tried several systems they bought and sold again at a rapid pace.
The Hollis was easy to acquire, so it was the system most discarded first.
Preferring the harnesses is just a normal evolutionary process.
Since it is a lot easier to get good results using the minimalistic harnesses the majority of the most experienced sidemount divers use harnesses of some kind in Europe now.

In the US this process is slowed by experienced teachers for the more complicated hybrid and old style 'jacket' systems, in Europe they don't exist.
There is also the Toddy sidemount system in Sardinia that is influencing the situation, since it can replace every system, except for the minimalistic harnesses.

Companies like XDeep, located in Poland, have a huge advantage in selling to European customers.
It took gosidemount more than a year to be allowed to sell their system, several still cannot be legally sold by shops in Germany in particular, but also in some other jurisdictions.

Hollis is also very successful but they had bad timing and also there is another point to their portfolio:
In the US many of the sidemount early adopters seem to be broad shouldered and well trained or simply 'large' people.
Here in Germany the majority are diminutive women, under-average men with knee and back injuries and I expect that to be similar in most of Europe.
Hollis sizes simply do not fit Europeans and local particularities well.

To summarize my opinion: It has next to nothing to do with different training or diving styles on this or the other side of the Atlantic.

Razorista you are certainly entitled to your opinion but if your basic premise is that there is one sidemount harness that is the best for any choice of exposure protection and tanks I feel that you are sadly mistaken and I believe most sidemount divers who have been diving in many different regions and under different conditions will agree.

 

[nakatomi]

There is also Spain and the other Mediterranean countries and Islands, there are lots of thermal springs and power plants releasing cooling water into lakes.

Power plants and thermal springs, Spain and Italy?
What does any of this have to do with sidemount?

Also: most European divers travel a lot and mostly prefer warmer regions.

Surprise surprise, so do most US and Canadian divers.

From the German viewpoint it happened this way:

A side note for the casual reader. When he says "German viewpoint" he is actually trying to say "in his humble opinion...". Let me assure everyone that he has no authority to speak for Germany or any part of the EU.

[...lots of opinion deleted...]
In the US many of the sidemount early adopters seem to be broad shouldered and well trained or simply 'large' people.
Here in Germany the majority are diminutive women, under-average men with knee and back injuries and I expect that to be similar in most of Europe.
Hollis sizes simply do not fit Europeans and local particularities well..

Say what? So you're saying American divers are fat and the Hollis rigs work for them but not for the smallish/skinny men and small/slender women in the EU?
What you're saying is just rubbish, plain and simple. The range of e.g. the SMS75 and SMS100 fits every diver from very petite women to pretty big guys. Ask me how I know, I've seen all of them use these rigs.
And with the help of the bungee system the rigs can be streamlined to adjust the lift/size to suit the individual needs.

 

[The Laconic]

There's an interesting article by Rob Neto in the latest Quest magazine on this topic (essentially Florida va Mexico sidemount rigs, although the article is really about how and why he had to adapt his setup for a Cozumel exploration).

 

[shoredivr]

Nomads, hollis and armadillo SM rigs are wings attached to a harness. Not a jacket. The misinformation from Razorista just does not stop.

 

[shoredivr]

There's an interesting article by Rob Neto in the latest Quest magazine on this topic (essentially Florida va Mexico sidemount rigs, although the article is really about how and why he had to adapt his setup for a Cozumel exploration).

@The Laconic do you have a link to the article?