Scuba diver dies after being found floating at Kurnell, NSW, Australia

[Jax]

Perhaps this design is the potential flaw. So you almost drowned because you had no weight to ditch? Was it all in your steel back plate & steel tank? This idea of having no ditchable weight works nicely for [-]cave divers &[/-] divers in double cylinders [-]overhead environments[/-]. However, it doesn't seem to be a good idea for most divers in single tanks. Does it? Do you really want to ditch your complete rig in an emergency including your B.C./ wing?

In my opinion. . . . no reason for not having ditchable weight in a singles config.

 

[tracydr]

Perhaps this design is the potential flaw. So you almost drowned because you had no weight to ditch? Was it all in your steel back plate & steel tank? This idea of having no ditchable weight works nicely for cave divers & divers in overhead environments. However, it doesn't seem to be a good idea for most divers. Does it? Do you really want to ditch your complete rig in an emergency including your B.C./ wing?

When this happened, I had a regular jacket BC. I was using a skin so not much in the way of suit buoyancy. The weight of the steel tank, full of gas,was enough to cause me problems. No weight belt, no backplate,nothing. I can't remember why I didn't have my weight belt on, I believe it was because I wasn't fully ready to start diving. I was in the process of getting ready and needed to cool off. I have no idea why I even had my tank on my back and I obviously didn't spend any time doing my normal gear checks.
Of course, this taught me a bunch of things. One thing ( not the only thing), is I don't dive a steel tank with a skin. My steel tanks are now only for my drysuit or heavy wetsuit.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

The more I see of this the more upset I get. I had no problem with her going off on her own. None. Until I found out that, to put it bluntly, she had little idea as to what she was doing with her gear. Or seemed to. A tropical wing with say 18lbs of lift. Wearing 26 lbs of weight, plus a steel tank that even empty is a bit negative. Even with a dry suit the min wing size should have been 30lbs or so. I'm surmising that she was wearing a weight belt as well. Maybe with the weights threaded on instead of in pockets. So not easy to ditch. Easy for an experienced dry suit diver but for a newbie? And in that dry suit she was a newbie. That she had not dialed in her weight and realized at the same time that her wing was the wrong one for the dive says that.

Had she practiced more or perhaps gotten competent instruction in dry suit use, emergency procedures, and proper weighting with the suit instead of trying to work it out herself she might not have had the problems she was having. When I dive cold water with a heavy steel LP 95 I wear a total of 26 lbs with a heavy undergarment. Ten of that is ditchable. Four of that ten is easily dropped as I just have to remove a couple two pound weights from my weight pockets on my weight belt. That is all I need to drop to start getting positive if the wing or suit fails. If both fail and I still have air I'll deploy the 50 lb lift bag and use it. And if I'm diving single back gas I will still have air even if that fails as I always sling a 40 or 30 in cold water.

I see this from time to time with experienced divers and other instructors using new gear. They seem to have this idea that they can adapt and master any new piece of equipment on their own. And some of it they can. But they also need to be humble enough to realize when the time comes that getting some help is not going to diminish them in anyone's eyes save their own. I don't know if she got any drysuit training or what kind. Or if she at least got some in water mentoring from experienced people. If not she should have.

One thing I try to do is take a course or class every season from someone I respect and know has the knowledge I want. This past season it was a Sidemount class with Doppler. I have been slinging bottles for a few years now. And even got a few SM dives in before the class. And did ok. And maybe could have spent the rest of the summer tweaking and adjusting on my own by reading and watching videos. Or I could also spend a few bucks and get real instruction from an expert on the subject.

As a result a few changes were made to my rig. And I was offered the opportunity to sling a third bottle during the class after he saw me in the water. Was I flattered? Damn right. But I am also a realist. That pisses some people off I know when it comes to talking about training today, but I am also very real with myself. So what if I've slung a couple 40's and an 80 while in doubles? This was/is a new animal and I know in my heart that while I could do it, I want to do it properly and at the proper time. That time has not come yet. It will. Next season I have no doubt. But the point is I know that it may even take another mini session with Steve or someone else to make the transition to a third and even 4th bottle. Until that time trying to work that out on my own could be foolish and dangerous.

We all can possibly take the lesson from this that there are times that no matter how many dives, how many certs, or that we are "pro's" that we still need to step back and say trying to do this on my own is horse crap. I need some help from someone who knows more than me. Had that happened here, the end might have been and likely would have been much different if it was not a medical event.

---------- Post added October 11th, 2013 at 04:46 PM ----------

Thanks. Now you have me curious. I believe you but I'm going to have to try it in the pool. Will be awhile,though. I'm still on crutches from my last surgery.[/QUOTE/]

Tracy, chest/neck deep? No air is getting in, pressure differential is too great. Water is too dense and much heavier. Waist deep you may feel some relief. Ankle deep or on shore? Body parts will be happy.

 

[scubadada]

In my opinion. . . . no reason for not having ditchable weight in a singles config.

I dive a Scubapro Knighthawk. With a steel tank and my 3 mm full suit, I have 2 pounds of ditchable weight. Without a wetsuit, I have no ditchable weight and am a few pounds heavy. I'm quite sure I could swim this to the surface with a complete BC failure. I have simulated this several times so that I would know what it is like.

Practicing for potential problems seems like a good idea. Many of us do that frequently by deploying our pony, our SMB. or our alternate reg.

 

[Dirty-Dog]

In my opinion. . . . no reason for not having ditchable weight in a singles config.

This is probably something for a separate thread (and I've no doubt a search will show plenty of threads on ditchable weight) but I disagree.

In warm water with a dive skin with a Seaquest Balance and a HP120, I use no weight at all. I also know for a fact (because I've done it) that I can swim this rig without any air in the BCD.
My BP/W has a 6lb stainless plate. No STA. I have not dove the HP120 with it yet, but off Oahu with an AL80 I only carried 2lbs. With an HP120, I have zero doubt I'll be sans ditchable weight.
Should I pile on neoprene (and be overheated) just so I can add weight? I don't think so.

I do carry a DSMB that doubles as a 30lb lift bag, and know for a fact (again, because I've done it) that this will easily support me.

 

[JohnoAU]

We should be keeping comments in context of this thread, e.g. a singles rig, with a dry suit, not in tropical conditions.

 

[tracydr]

Thanks, Jim.
Quero had a drysuit class which she took in Northern Ca. From the PMs I had with her, it sounded like the class was a distant memory and that she hadn't used a drysuit since getting her certification.

 

[down4fun]

I tend to agree with Jax's analysis, and I was not close to Quero. I too do dives where the result of even relatively small mistakes will probably not be me having enough time to save myself, but that does not at all seem to be the case here. Rather, this was an extremely experienced diver in shallow open water with no deco obligation. Even if she suddenly found herself with no response from the reg when she went to pull her next breath after exhale, all evidence is that she was capable of doffing or cutting herself out of the rig and getting to the surface without much trouble.

If as Diver0001 says, the evidence simply does not suggest a medical or obvious external factor (sea nettle, entanglement), then I'm left to conclude that something else prevented her from executing what reason dictated and her training and experience more than allowed. Maybe the drysuit was too restrictive? And then there's the P word, which has the potential to kill any one of us in circumstances that leave all of the armchair QBs thinking how could this have happened on that dive?

While a medical issue or external factor would make us all warm and fuzzy and remove responsibility from the victim, that does not appear to be what happened here. Truth is, we will never really know. As is the case in so many diver deaths, the only one who holds the answer cannot tell us what unfolded. I did not know her, nor am I doubting her skills in the water. I am simply trying to point out that no one is infallible. Especially when a new piece of gear is introduced or a new environment. It is a knee jerk reaction to say "that" couldn't happen to her, or she was "too" good to make a mistake. Instructors and some very, very experienced divers die in diving accidents and they aren't all medical. We are all human and imperfect beings.

 

[Jax]

If as Diver0001 says, the evidence simply does not suggest a medical or obvious external factor (sea nettle, entanglement), then I'm left to conclude that something else prevented her from executing what reason dictated and her training and experience more than allowed. Maybe the drysuit was too restrictive? And then there's the P word, which has the potential to kill any one of us in circumstances that leave all of the armchair QBs thinking how could this have happened on that dive?

This is the part that bothers me, I think. As a diver, I have to believe that all this practice of the skills will hold me in good stead when doodoo occurs. If not, what is the use? Would we not just be playing the roulette game? Just adding a drysuit in a benign environment, and my skills will be of no use?

Everything we train for is useless, then. And from my military experience, it isn't true. Even fatally shot, soldiers have done things on pure muscle memory that proves that we do, indeed go to our lowest practiced standard. I don't like Cave Divers' hypotheses, but his description is possible. I prefer to believe that something prevented that ability to revert to the well-practiced skill. We will know after the autopsy -- if they find nothing, I am left with nothing else but the P word.

 

[Dr. Lecter]

While a medical issue or external factor would make us all warm and fuzzy and remove responsibility from the victim, that does not appear to be what happened here. Truth is, we will never really know. As is the case in so many diver deaths, the only one who holds the answer cannot tell us what unfolded. I did not know her, nor am I doubting her skills in the water. I am simply trying to point out that no one is infallible. Especially when a new piece of gear is introduced or a new environment. It is a knee jerk reaction to say "that" couldn't happen to her, or she was "too" good to make a mistake. Instructors and some very, very experienced divers die in diving accidents and they aren't all medical. We are all human and imperfect beings.

You seem to be confusing my interest in arriving at the most likely explanation with an interest in feeling good and/or caring about whether the victim gets blamed for her own death. Nobody is infallible, but the consequences of screwing up vary from dive to dive: one would have to make a mindboggling series of mistakes to drown under the conditions it appears Quero died. Thus, my positing that the more likely scenario was an inability to remove herself from the rig and/or the absence of rational thought necessary to pursue that approach.