CESA Question

[boulderjohn]

I was thinking of Rouse Sr and Jr. They really suffered

Not so much the dad--he died soon after reaching the surface. The son did suffer greatly before dying.

But that was a pretty extreme case--a direct ascent from roughly 230 feet while having a significant decompression obligation. Like a said, there is a huge range of DCS potential in technical diving, starting with not much more than NDL diving.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Not so much the dad--he died soon after reaching the surface.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure he suffered. Not for long. I would take drowning over that level of pain.

The son did suffer greatly before dying.

But that was a pretty extreme case--a direct ascent from roughly 230 feet while having a significant decompression obligation. Like a said, there is a huge range of DCS potential in technical diving, starting with not much more than NDL diving.

Did I not say that?

DCS for recreational divers beats drowning. for technical divers skipping a huge deco obligation, I'll take drowning.

I don't understand your contrarianism here.

Is it not clear that there is a wide range between these two scenarios?

 

[boulderjohn]

I don't understand your contrarianism here.

Is it not clear that there is a wide range between these two scenarios?

Perhaps I am misunderstanding. You seem to be saying that all cases of an ascent without decompression on a technical dive will lead to unimaginable pain and likely death. I am suggesting that there is a broad range within the world of technical ascent screwups, starting with a strong possibility of no DCS at all.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Perhaps I am misunderstanding. You see to be saying that all cases of an ascent without decompression on a technical dive will lead to unimaginable pain and likely death. I am suggesting that there is a broad range within the world of technical ascent screwups, starting with a strong possibility of no DCS at all.

My mind is blown. I never realized that I had to choose my words like I was speaking to children. If I were to explain DCS to my 3-year old daughter, then sure, it is going to be a long winded explanation.

But adults? We are mostly adults here, right? Even though we are in the forum of New Divers & Those Considering Diving, it isn't expecting to much for people to have heard of the bends and understand that different dives result in different levels of risk for DCS/the bends. They may not understand that it is nitrogen absorption (and helium to a degree, I don't think delving into Eliminating The Helium Penalty - Shearwater Research is particularly necessary), and the degree of which results in a controlled offgassing during ascent, but that's fine.

 

[boulderjohn]

My mind is blown.

Well--not too much explanation in this.

I would just like to point out that in the famed Malta dive case, the convicted diver did not ascend immediately because he wanted to complete a 2.5 minute decompression stop. The expert witness said he would likely have had no ill effects from skipping that stop. In contrast, as I understand your position, since it was a required decompression stop on a technical dive, he should prefer to drown rather than skip that stop because of the painful death he would have inevitably suffered.

Do I have that right?

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Well--not too much explanation in this.

I would just like to point out that in the famed Malta dive case, the convicted diver did not ascend immediately because he wanted to complete a 2.5 minute decompression stop. The expert witness said he would likely have had no ill effects from skipping that stop. In contrast, as I understand your position, since it was a required decompression stop on a technical dive, he should prefer to drown rather than skip that stop because of the painful death he would have inevitably suffered.

Do I have that right?

No you don't.

I'm going to bow out as this is going way too OT and I can see us going back and forth and never converging.

 

[Angelo Farina]

What an active and helpful Board this is!

Yup, I was nervous about CESA. Anxious. Reading through the posts, including these last few posts, above leave me with this:

Keep your wits. Pay attention. Monitor your air. Keep an eye on your dive buddy.

If/when something happens, continue to keep your wits and you should be just fine.

If necessary, do a CESA. You will likely get some additional air as depth decreases.

And if necessary, choose to be alive and injured at the surface rather than dead at depth. If you are suddenly OOA and let's say you are also winded and out of breath and must get to the surface quickly, then I guess that's what you have to do. Continue to keep your wits about you.

Great. You got the two main points.
Pay attention - this is good for preventing accidents.
And when **** happens, keep your wits.
Most accidents are not really serious, they become bad due to improper reaction and panic.
And do not worry about emergency ascents. In roughly 1500 dives I was involved in at least a dozen of mild or serious emergencencies, including OOA due to abnormal ventilation, O-ring explosions, clogged regs, being wrapped in fishing lines, burning both lamps inside a cave, etc.
An emergency ascent was never needed.

 

[boulderjohn]

Most accidents are not really serious, they become bad due to improper reaction and panic.

I am the graduate of a workshop that essentially focused on that. It was sponsored by an insurance agency. They used the word "incident" to identify a situation arising in a dive for which proper action by the diver is required. The incident does not become an emergency until the diver fails to perform a proper action. For example, we tend to use the term "out of air emergency," but they use the term "out of air incident." In all out of air incidents, proper action by the diver (which is taught in the OW class) will keep it at the incident level. It becomes an emergency when the diver fails to act properly.

 

[armeyer82]

I have an additional question and I hope someone can answer it here. If diving in a three-person buddy diving group, what is the technique for bringing the two other buddies to the surface in the event that one goes unconscious? I've ever only practiced this drill with one other buddy.

 

[BlueTrin]

I have an additional question and I hope someone can answer it here. If diving in a three-person buddy diving group, what is the technique for bringing the two other buddies to the surface in the event that one goes unconscious? I've ever only practiced this drill with one other buddy.

One buddy bring the unconscious person.

The third person try to follow the two others and provide assistance if needed but mostly trying to not be in the way?