Unstaffed moored boat during dives?

[caydiver]

Thanks Divetech. The second guessing will still abound, but I guess it is normal when folks with no experience in the business much less in a different country try to fit it all in. I would go back to simply saying that if you want the comfort of knowing the op you are with has safety as a main part of what they offer, make sure they are a member of CITA when diving in Cayman. The ops that are members of CITA actually care about having happy and safe customers.

 

[Saboteur]

Thanks Divetech. The second guessing will still abound, but I guess it is normal when folks with no experience in the business much less in a different country try to fit it all in. I would go back to simply saying that if you want the comfort of knowing the op you are with has safety as a main part of what they offer, make sure they are a member of CITA when diving in Cayman. The ops that are members of CITA actually care about having happy and safe customers.

Well the op in question appears to be a member (listed on CITA website), so I hope this particular day was an anomaly and not an example of day to day operations.

 

[caydiver]

Take it privately. Will send contact info for CITA Watersports chair. That said having someone on surface watch is not limited to CITA members or even commercial vessels.

 

[tridacna]

I dived with LCBR in August. I’ve been diving for over 40 years and they were the most safety-conscious and best prepared outfit that I’ve ever had the pleasure of diving with.

One of their other boats had a medical issue and needed our help. We were in the water. Their boats are equipped with underwater speakers and were able to summon us at 70 feet, get us back on board and then go to the assistance of the other boat. (A diver had a medical issue and was rushed back to shore). We collected the remaining divers. Very impressive operation.

 

[drrich2]

I know that @drrich2 just returned from a trip to Bonaire and he is certified solo so I would like to hear his current thoughts on this issue?

From what I read of the Grand Cayman land-based shore diving 'scene,' particularly regarding a certain onus to rent tanks from onsite providers when doing so, I'm under the impression that, compared to Bonaire, Grand Cayman has much fewer mainstream shore diving sites, and the bulk of those have some sort of business that owns the property by which one would access them from shore. Thus while the op. doesn't technically own the dive site, from the perspective of shore divers, for practical purposes they control it. If a business owner is anti-solo diving out of liability fears or control issues, for example, that would give them considerable leverage.

This situation became sufficiently entrenched some people mistakenly believed solo diving illegal in the Caymans, though that is not the case. I suspect paternalistic regulatory practices grow as a society's government grows. Curacao is similar to Bonaire in some respects, larger and more populous, and seems less accommodating to solo diving (again, to the point some thought it illegal there), but it's not and some providers tolerate it.

In Bonaire, there are many shore accessible dive sites, many (I suspect most) publicly accessible without walking across private property in front of some business (it's not unknown; if you stay at Black Durgon Inn, Small Wall is a shore dive; if you don't, you'll likely need a boat). And the heavy emphasis on shore diving over a large area means a dive culture where unsupervised divers (some alone) with gear and tanks in rental trucks drive off dive op. property and border on un-(scuba)-policeable. I believe Dive Friends requires solo cert. (though off grounds I imagine that's unenforceable), and they made note I have one.

Bringing it back around to talk of regulations pertaining to dive boats, any time you have a commercial business such as a dive op. with paying customers, held accountable to government and insurance companies, you're going to have more regulation that we see on Bonaire shore divers. I imagine Bonaire's dive boat operations fall under such, also.

Richard.

 

[KathyV]

From what I read of the Grand Cayman land-based shore diving 'scene,' particularly regarding a certain onus to rent tanks from onsite providers when doing so, I'm under the impression that, compared to Bonaire, Grand Cayman has much fewer mainstream shore diving sites, and the bulk of those have some sort of business that owns the property by which one would access them from shore. Thus while the op. doesn't technically own the dive site, from the perspective of shore divers, for practical purposes they control it. If a business owner is anti-solo diving out of liability fears or control issues, for example, that would give them considerable leverage.

This situation became sufficiently entrenched some people mistakenly believed solo diving illegal in the Caymans, though that is not the case. I suspect paternalistic regulatory practices grow as a society's government grows. Curacao is similar to Bonaire in some respects, larger and more populous, and seems less accommodating to solo diving (again, to the point some thought it illegal there), but it's not and some providers tolerate it.

In Bonaire, there are many shore accessible dive sites, many (I suspect most) publicly accessible without walking across private property in front of some business (it's not unknown; if you stay at Black Durgon Inn, Small Wall is a shore dive; if you don't, you'll likely need a boat). And the heavy emphasis on shore diving over a large area means a dive culture where unsupervised divers (some alone) with gear and tanks in rental trucks drive off dive op. property and border on un-(scuba)-policeable. I believe Dive Friends requires solo cert. (though off grounds I imagine that's unenforceable), and they made note I have one.

Bringing it back around to talk of regulations pertaining to dive boats, any time you have a commercial business such as a dive op. with paying customers, held accountable to government and insurance companies, you're going to have more regulation that we see on Bonaire shore divers. I imagine Bonaire's dive boat operations fall under such, also.

Richard.

I remember a time when shore diving Grand Cayman was more like Bonaire. There were never nearly as many shore dive sites on GC but there were some really nice ones - there still are! The island was much less developed and the popular shore dives didn't have onsite ops back then. If you were interested in shore diving the dive shop that you were using for your boat dives would give you tanks to take offsite for shore diving. The divemaster would put x marks on a map to indicate the best shore dives and tell you about the entries. Things were looser back then - and we were younger - and it was a whole lot of fun! I haven't tried it but it sounds like the shore diving on Brac and LC are still like this - but not very common.

Things have changed (and so have we!) and I like the current process on GC with the dive ops onsite at the popular shore dives. It's easy, convenient, and cheap and we can sit down and have a drink and/or a good meal when we are done diving - very pleasant. And help isn't very far away if we should need it.

The dive cultures of Bonaire and Cayman are very different and there are pros and cons to be said for both of them. But it does annoy me when someone proclaims "it's against the law!" about things like solo diving in Cayman when I know that it isn't illegal - it's just not consistent with the commonly accepted culture and the local recommended practice. And I don't really mind that - I am not a solo diver and it's the dive shop owners that have customers and reputations to protect and liability concerns. Maybe they could be a little more open to change but I really appreciate that the Cayman dive ops I've used are very safety conscious. If it really were illegal and consistently practiced that would be different, but the fact that people keep citing exceptions to the "rule" is what causes confusion. Or even if a dive op said "we do not support that but you may find other dive ops that do" it would help to clarify things. It's not a big issue but it does exist.

I think that Bonaire's dive culture developed the way it has because of Captain Don. He was a wild man and he was the first - and he created a dive paradise in his image. Consider that many of the dive sites are named after his old girlfriends!

Tony mentioned that Cayman dive ops are rightfully very concerned about accidents and injuries so it's kind of surprising that you rarely hear about dive accidents on Bonaire. There doesn't seem to be many of them even though things are rather loose there. Even if locals tried to squelch news about accidents they would be posted online here at SB and on other forum sites, so accidents really must be infrequent. It probably helps that most of Bonaire's visitors are experienced divers and that the majority of the dive sites are very close to shore, but still - the dive sites are often distant from medical and other assistance - and you don't dare bring a phone with you and leave it in the car! What you do hear a lot about on Bonaire is theft, and they really could use more laws and enforcement about that IMO.

It is possible that Cayman dive shop staff that cite non-existent laws or regs are either misinformed or just blowing people off - but I think that comments about "it's against the law!" and "it's against the rules!" is the reason that Cayman diving has a reputation (among some divers) as being very regulated, prescribed, and restricted - and that's unfortunate because it's not really true and you can have a lot of fun diving in Cayman - and Bonaire, too!

On the other hand, there really ought to be a law (everywhere!) against having divers in the water and no lookout on the boat! A few years ago we were out on a dive on Cayman Brac when the mooring line broke and all the divers and the dive master came up to find the boat gone and we had to surface swim to the next mooring site to find the boat. It all worked out well - but what if there hadn't been a competent staff member on the boat when the line parted?

When you are shore diving you are on your own and you know and accept that but at least you are close to shore. But when you do a boat dive with an op - although you still have the main responsibility for your personal safety - you do expect them to provide an extra level of vigilance and to be prepared to offer assistance if needed. At least that's what I expect - but it may not be the expectation of others.

 

[caydiver]

Just spoke with 2 shore dive ops on the west side, the biggest dive op on the island and two respected East End ops. None allow solo diving and believe that they are not allowed to. We had real conversations op to op and in one case the chap on shop duty today who teaches the PADI Self Reliant Diver Course said it is his understanding that the course is to teach divers what to do if they are inadvertently without a buddy (ie separated) not solo anyway. That is paraphrased I am not an instructor, so perhaps misunderstood what he was saying. I took the effort to make the calls as I felt bad if we give guests incorrect info about solo diving. We don’t want to just make stuff up, blow people off or be misinformed. It is disheartening to think that anyone with long experience with dive ops here would think so. We are trying to make a living and need happy guests to do so. We also have to maintain TBLs, carry appropriate insurance, comply with Watersports rules, be compliant with PADI requirements, etc. CITA is not mandatory but if we want to go to places like The Kittiwake of Stingray City/Sanbar it is. There is additional insurance requirements to go to The Kittiwake ( not provided by CITA but the certificate of coverage is required with payment for the right to bring guests) as mentioned by DiveTech. I cannot speak for Stingray City as we don’t go there. No one is trying to pull the wool over guests eyes, lie to them or disallow them anything that would enhance their overall experience. I have sent an email into our rep at V&B our insurance carrier as a PADI Dive Center to see if they have anything “official”. Possibly in other countries not all this is necessary but we are here and this is what we do. If it becomes too onerous we will go out of business, but as a visitor you can go elsewhere. I would not dive In a place where I thought staff was just making stuff up (another description for lying), or blowing off my questions. Frankly I am surprised anyone would. Diving has evolved. Many years ago there were ops where everyone popped a few beers if they wanted between dives, or were tied up to each if vis was bad. Some changes are positive some not so much but it is what it is.

 

[Wookie]

We had real conversations op to op and in one case the chap on shop duty today who teaches the PADI Self Reliant Diver Course said it is his understanding that the course is to teach divers what to do if they are inadvertently without a buddy (ie separated) not solo anyway. That is paraphrased I am not an instructor, so perhaps misunderstood what he was saying.

This is the PADI line.

 

[KathyV]

I dived with LCBR in August. I’ve been diving for over 40 years and they were the most safety-conscious and best prepared outfit that I’ve ever had the pleasure of diving with.

One of their other boats had a medical issue and needed our help. We were in the water. Their boats are equipped with underwater speakers and were able to summon us at 70 feet, get us back on board and then go to the assistance of the other boat. (A diver had a medical issue and was rushed back to shore). We collected the remaining divers. Very impressive operation.

Glad to hear it, that has also been our experience with Reef Divers - and in general I have found Cayman dive ops to be very efficient and safety conscious - so it was disturbing to learn that with some ops there may not be a lookout on the boat when divers are in the water. Hopefully it was just an anomaly and not a regular practice.

@Saboteur You've really started an interesting discussion, thanks for bringing this issue forward!

 

[Doctorfish]

There are still places on GC a diver can just strap on gear and head into the ocean. Smith's Cove, Babylon to name a few. I personally would rather dive from a shore dive operation where there are steps, dip tanks etc but you certainly could dive "Bonaire style", if you wanted.