OWD license without a doctor's certificate?

[JackD342]

Same experience here.

Me neither, I have to wonder what I am missing when I hear that.

I suppose it is possible to find an operator that is extra cautious from past experience, and treats a guided dive as the same supervision reposnsibility as instruction. But I would expect that to be rare, and haven’t actually experienced it.

One other scenario I can imagine - if a diver is talking up significant medical issues in front of me and/or staff, I might just feel the need to cover my butt and get an MD clearance on file now that I have been made aware.

 

[JackD342]

* I've only been asked to fill out an RSTC form when i arrived on a liveaboard in the Maldives.
* I have been asked in advance on a liveaboard in Indonesia for a doctor's signature less than 6 months old because of my age,
* And I have been asked in advance on a different liveaboard in Indonesia to look at the RSTC form, and if there are YES answers to bring a doctor's signature, but not the RSTC form.
* In all other instances, I've been given a waiver to sign that says something like "Is there anything that we need to know about your medical history and medications?"
None of these involved training.

Were all of those trips remote enough that medical assistance/response in an emergency might involve an extended, life threatening delay? That might be the common thread for a higher standard.

 

[SapphireMind]

Yes, you've mentioned that about a gazillion times already. Along with just about everything you say in every "new" posts.

Just out of curiosity I ran your posts through a "repetitive phrase finder and eliminator program" and when it was done there was only one paragraph left.

I know, it's sort of frustrating. Someone would say something that I had addressed in a previous post so there was a lot of repeating myself because people didn't seem to notice.

I've had to have a waiver when I went diving in Mexico, No CA and Hawaii. Everyone was given them as a matter of course when they arrive.

I am totally about transferring liability off the diveboats/shops/instructors. They should not bear a legal liability for my health, short of them coming up behind me underwater and turning off my O2 LOL That should still be illegal

 

[tridacna]

Were all of those trips remote enough that medical assistance/response in an emergency might involve an extended, life threatening delay? That might be the common thread for a higher standard.

Not really. I’ve had to fill them out in Australia, (country requirement), Roatan (resort requirement) and New Zealand (just because).

 

[dmaziuk]

Personally I think .au country-wide requirement is perfectly reasonable, but back when I lived down there we had socialized medicine and 99% of us lived in the cities where doctors are. Anybody knows how this works out now, and/or for a furriner?

 

[Neilwood]

Dealing with the medical certificate I think it serves a number of different purposes depending on where you are in the process:
1) Student - most new OW student divers have very limited or no medical training and as such have not got a clue as to what health related events might affect them underwater so this is a good check list of areas where, should there be any contra indications, someone with the right knowledge can make a judgement call as to whether the diver is safe to dive.
2) Instructor - most instructors are not medically trained either so can't assess a potential students risk
3) Doctor - they are the people with the most knowledge about the persons medical issues and how the particular disease/condition may affect the person.
4) Dive buddy - they know that the person they are diving with has either declared themselves fit to dive or a doctor has.

I realise that people can (and probably do) lie on their forms. That's a bad idea for all involved in an activity where trust is a very big element.

@SapphireMind you are in a very unusual position with regards to your particular conditions and that is something to bear in mind when looking at the process as a whole. You have the knowledge as to how your condition presents on the surface as well as the understanding of the physiology that is causing it. What you don't have though is the knowledge of how that MIGHT affect you underwater. We undergo physiological changes when we dive (mammalian dive reflex) which causes circulatory as well as other changes (including a very large fluid shift). Can you guarantee that a pressure increase of 3-4 bar which will cause a large blood shift to your torso and head might not have an adverse affect on you underwater? Even a qualified hyperbaric doctor might struggle to give an accurate prognosis of what might happen in certain circumstances underwater because diving physiology is not an exact science. What the hyperbaric doctor can do however is look at the best current evidence and extrapolate how the dive reflex might affect your particular issues.

 

[60plus]

I suspect that most people omit to declare conditions on the medical forms, particularly on holiday dives. You would have to have had an incredibly fortunate life not to have had at least a few of the conditions and several of them if some time ago have no bearing on diving. What I have done is seen a GP (who has diving knowledge) at my local practice and had a thorough examination including blood tests. All this cost nothing for a verbal "OK to dive" but if I had wanted him to fill in the PADI form it wold have cost £70.

 

[lv2dive]

There have been other instructors in this thread who don’t agree it’s either / or (either checkboxes or a doctor’s signature).

I read the form as either/or, and due to privacy concerns I do not fill out the checkboxes. Thus far, I have not had a problem with this approach. But if I did, I’d check one box off (since I’ve obviously had my knee replaced). once I’ve been cleared, I just do not believe the details of my history are anyone’s business. IMHO, in the US, it is a liability form for 95% of the people/organizations who require it.

Right, I'm not an instructor, but from what I gather it's either all "no" checkmarks OR the doctor's note to satisfy the agency requirements. Of course, it makes sense to disclose to dive buddies any information that would be relevant to them in that capacity, but that would be your judgement call

 

[TMHeimer]

I suspect that most people omit to declare conditions on the medical forms, particularly on holiday dives. You would have to have had an incredibly fortunate life not to have had at least a few of the conditions and several of them if some time ago have no bearing on diving. What I have done is seen a GP (who has diving knowledge) at my local practice and had a thorough examination including blood tests. All this cost nothing for a verbal "OK to dive" but if I had wanted him to fill in the PADI form it wold have cost £70.

An interesting point about the unlikely situation of someone being able to truthfully answer No to every single question. Don't recall that point being brought up before on these threads. I honestly can't recall if I fudged a bit or not when filling in all "No"s. It was too long ago.
So, I googled the present form (which appears to be exactly the same ones I filled out (2005-2009).
I "lied" on 3 things--(well, I must have since I at least don't recall getting a letter from my Dr.).
--Currently smoke (a pipe, and infrequently).
--Take prescription medications (I take others now, but back then I took one only and it couldn't possibly cause any problems while diving--a bladder problem).
--hernia operation-- 1990. Some kind of "Hiatal" or Abdominal thing. Dr. knew about it and said diving was irrelevant.
Of course, I'd never list these if I were still a working DM. To be honest, I never gave these things a thought during those 4 years either. But I always talked to my Dr. about my diving and he to me about his swimming. I guess he would've said something all those years if he thought I was at risk at all.
Now, of course I could've answered Yes on these 3 and getting a Dr.'s release would've been no problem. Except that the Dr. was a 50 mile round trip away from home and the shop a 100 mile round trip in the opposite direction. Just saved that little hassle.

 

[doctormike]

There have been other instructors in this thread who don’t agree it’s either / or (either checkboxes or a doctor’s signature).

I read the form as either/or, and due to privacy concerns I do not fill out the checkboxes. Thus far, I have not had a problem with this approach. But if I did, I’d check one box off (since I’ve obviously had my knee replaced). once I’ve been cleared, I just do not believe the details of my history are anyone’s business. IMHO, in the US, it is a liability form for 95% of the people/organizations who require it.

Yeah, looking at the PADI form again, it's not clear. It seems like they are asking you to fill out the boxes with "Yes" or "No", and then get the medical statement filled out by a doc if any "Yes" answers. But It's not clear what would happen if you just gave them the form and didn't fill out the boxes. Maybe it's instructor discretion, maybe something for PADI legal to weigh in on...