directing valves inside (to the chest)?

[Norwegian Cave Diver]

Perhaps you should go to Mexico and learn a better way. IMO

 

[tbone1004]

if diving with AL80's in a wetsuit was practical in Florida, we all would. Unfortunately it is completely impractical. There is nothing about al80 diving in Mx that makes spg's down better, and the single piece of bungee that the Razor crowd uses leads to horrid looking tank trim.

If you are so adamant that it is better, I would recommend you come and convert all of the Florida divers who dive SPG's down and convince them that it is wrong and dangerous. Please video how well that works for you when you try to read a downward facing SPG on LP121's while riding a scooter in high flow.

Many of us dive in configurations similar to what MX dives when appropriate however there is no practical benefit of diving with SPG's down other than it is easier to do the initial setup because of how forgiving it is to bad tank trim, which most MX divers have due to the single bungee. We went away from that to loop bungees because it actually puts the bottles on your side and Steve Martin followed suit a few years ago. His tanks are still quite a bit lower than ours, but the perks of using AL80's is you can get away with thin stretchy bungee which makes reading the gauges easier. Not all that helpful with big steels

 

[Norwegian Cave Diver]

if diving with AL80's in a wetsuit was practical in Florida, we all would. Unfortunately it is completely impractical. There is nothing about al80 diving in Mx that makes spg's down better, and the single piece of bungee that the Razor crowd uses leads to horrid looking tank trim

If you remove the questions of where you are trained and what gear you are diving - and gave a new untrained sidemount diver the choice between diving regs up and explained in that configuration your regs are protected by your armpits and shoulders vs regs down and exposed to possible damage by them hitting something - then the decision on what configuration to choose becomes easy and obvious. Again that same untrained sidemount diver - given the choice between - lollypop - SPGs facing forward and down and the risk of damage and entanglement - vs - laying on top of your tank and protected would choose on top and protected. Easy and obvious safe configuration. The only question now becomes what rig(s) allow that configuration?
And to answer the next question - I don't dive a Razor.

 

[MichaelMc]

This is an illuminating thread. (My loop bungee, regs in, LP50 SPGs down seem fine, maybe my tank trim is low?? Hmm.)

gave a new untrained sidemount diver the choice

But, ah, why would you ask the untrained the best way to design a system? A bit like asking 5 year olds if a tricycle or a 10-speed would be better. Compatible for novice divers, yes. Designed as a thought experiment as if chosen by them, ... maybe not.

 

[tbone1004]

all rigs allow that configuration, you can put thin bungee on anything you want and dive it as long as the tanks don't sag too much. It's how easy it is to read the spg's and if you deem the theoretical problems of protection as more of an issue than just looking down. as someone who actually goes into sidemount passages i like being able to see my gauges while in there. not always possible with spg down

 

[Norwegian Cave Diver]

This is an illuminating thread.


But, ah, why would you ask the untrained the best way to design a system? A bit like asking 5 year olds if a tricycle or a 10-speed would be better. Compatible for novice divers, yes. Designed as a thought experiment as if chosen by them, ... maybe not.

I would expect some logical - thoughtful - explained conversation by the instructor - if the instructor is unbiased. I am not asking an untrained sidemount diver to redesign gear configuration. And that diver isn't 5 years old. By far the majority of those divers are adults 18+ years old. Someone I would expect you could have a hearty - healthy conversation with.

 

[tbone1004]

@Norwegian Cave Diver as an fyi
the guy who wrote this *note SPG's down*
ADVANCED DIVER MAGAZINE
trained the guy who pioneered SPG's up in sidemount diving. He started with SPG's down and went to SPG's up after diving with them down for many years. He came to that conclusion for a reason

 

[Norwegian Cave Diver]

all rigs allow that configuration, you can put thin bungee on anything you want and dive it as long as the tanks don't sag too much. It's how easy it is to read the spg's and if you deem the theoretical problems of protection as more of an issue than just looking down. as someone who actually goes into sidemount passages i like being able to see my gauges while in there. not always possible with spg down

I feel like your trying to justify a second rate gear configuration because the kit you dive doesn't allow for a safer configuration? I dive AL80's in mexico caves. But at home I have used my steel 130's - in sidemount - with regs up - SPGs laying on the top of the tank - wearing a drysuit - and I can check my pressure gauges just fine. Sure in a cave there will be a small % for the time that reading my gauges in a confined area would be difficult or impossible to do - but checking them before entering that space is a normal logical thing to do. And the % of time that a first stage could be damaged - if it were mounted down - by rocks etc is much higher and much riskier.

 

[Scuba_Aaron]

@Norwegian Cave Diver
Don' really have a dog in this but I am curious as to how you check the spg when it's on the top of the tank? It sounds difficult and I haven't seen anything like this in my research on SM configurations. Have any videos or pics on this?

Edit: typo

 

[Norwegian Cave Diver]

Its is simple really. Reach back - slide your hand up the tank until you feel the gauge - feel with your thumb that the face is up - so that it is readable when you look at it - continue to look forward - scan your surroundings - use your light if necessary to illuminate your gauge - bring your light forward again and look at your gauge. Never are you looking at your gauge with your light on it. Practice that a few times and it will become second nature for you. Right now - stand up - close your eyes - reach back with your hand and pretend you are wearing your sidemount tanks and try it. Its easy.