soggybadger
Contributor
The terrible thing is I actually looked a bit like that when I was younger.
Cautionary tale for new divers
- Thread starter Marie13
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soggybadger
Contributor
I'm like a teenager. Desperate to use it but feel a bit sad if nobody is around to see it in all its glory. Six foot it is.
OP
I'm not sure I fully understand what the concern is.
The person is certified to dive deep, and is apparently diving within their certification level.
I'm not sure what "major equipment changes" you're discussing, but they are taking them somewhere to get familiar with them before doing "what they already do" with that new gear. That indicates to me that they are making 1 change (modifying equipment) and getting familiar with that change in a relatively controlled setting, then using that gear in their (now) normal diving environment.
Perhaps they get comfortable with new equipment faster than you and see no significant risk of diving with new equipment, doing their normal diving, after they've tried it out in the water already? To them, your advice may be coming across like someone advising a newly certified OW diver not to go to 65 ft because they're only certified to 60 ft. Sure, it's "outside their training" but they can tell it's also easily within their abilities and still pretty much as safe as it was.
That something concerns you, or that you would do it differently, doesn't necessarily mean that it should be a concern to everyone or that everyone should do it the same way as you would.
Maybe the details convey things much differently, but I didn't see anything to be concerned about from your posts.
johndiver999
Contributor
I got a pm as well. I assume she is hesitant to provide more
Specificity because the incident and resolution could
Easily be recognized by the parties involved. I’m sure the intent was not to embarrass the participants, but after receiving some of the details, it sounds like this individual is
more of a train wreck than a gifted student who has the ability to learn from their mistakes.
My personal opinion is that a slower progression and a few quary dives are NOT going to bring about the necessary competence.
Specificity because the incident and resolution could
Easily be recognized by the parties involved. I’m sure the intent was not to embarrass the participants, but after receiving some of the details, it sounds like this individual is
more of a train wreck than a gifted student who has the ability to learn from their mistakes.
My personal opinion is that a slower progression and a few quary dives are NOT going to bring about the necessary competence.
OP
Go ahead if you like. I was trying to keep things general and specifics private.
After getting the details a bit more, I'd like to modify my response to the following general advice:
Exceeding one's training and experience is a problem. In this case, it appears that the person in question is definitely desiring to do so, and pushing their experience level to the limit as a course of habit right now.
Getting trained and then never practicing for what to do if there is a problem is a common issue with any enjoyable activity. All of us should periodically practice what to do if we have an issue with our gear. I'll say that from personal experience, even people trained extensively in responding to emergency situations sometimes, so I won't necessarily say a person's response to having an issue means they were diving beyond their training, but it could just be how they respond.
Exceeding one's training and experience is a problem. In this case, it appears that the person in question is definitely desiring to do so, and pushing their experience level to the limit as a course of habit right now.
Getting trained and then never practicing for what to do if there is a problem is a common issue with any enjoyable activity. All of us should periodically practice what to do if we have an issue with our gear. I'll say that from personal experience, even people trained extensively in responding to emergency situations sometimes, so I won't necessarily say a person's response to having an issue means they were diving beyond their training, but it could just be how they respond.
Stoo
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I hate to sound like a butt-head, but why is this your concern? Some people are very comfortable in the water, have faith that the engineers that design dive gear know what they're doing, and are confident in their abilities. While your friend's approach may not align with yours, does it matter? If he's your buddy, then I understand your concern, but otherwise, you have expressed your concern, so I suggest you back off.
I started solo diving about 6 months after I got certified. I was using a pony and never had a problem... even having a freeze-up in my primary reg at a depth you wouldn't approve of. I went to my tiny 13 cf pony, while I shut down my main tank, allowing my reg to thaw. I turned it back on in shallower/warmer water, no biggie. For YEARS I was criticized for diving alone, long before solo was a thing. I finally asked an Instructor friend to sell me a solo card so I had one for liveaboards. I had logged about 2500 solo dives at that point, including mix dives in excess of 200'. Not everyone's cup of tea, but also nobody else's business.
So relax, and let your friend do what he wants. If he does something stupid, he'll learn, or die, but either way it's his choice.
Just a further thought about "exceeding your training and experience"... So since the PADIfication of diving where every little skill requires a new course to the point of becoming absurd, we old guys progressed through more and more "advanced" dives by diving with more experienced friends, or progressing on our own and learning the hard way sometimes. I often make time to dive with never divers and I sometimes chuckle at what they believe will happen if they "exceed their training". I understand what you're saying, but so many divers have "drunk the Koolaid" and believe that if you buy a new pair of fins, you need to take a course to learn how to use them. (Exaggeration for effect!)
As for exceeding one's experience, isn't every new dive somewhat like that? If you go 10' deeper, or somewhere where there's a current, or it's dark? That's how we learn.... Moving through more complex dives slowly and carefully and learning as you go. I did a 110' solo night dive on Saturday night... no biggie, but when I posted a couple of pics, so folks were amazed I didn't die.
Having said all this, I lost a friend in the Florida caves a few years ago.. He'd only been diving three years and had amassed dozens of certifications in that time. On paper, he was well-qualified to do the dive he died on. What killed him was his arrogant attitude. You can't train that out of someone and when he died, I wasn't the least bit surprised.
I started solo diving about 6 months after I got certified. I was using a pony and never had a problem... even having a freeze-up in my primary reg at a depth you wouldn't approve of. I went to my tiny 13 cf pony, while I shut down my main tank, allowing my reg to thaw. I turned it back on in shallower/warmer water, no biggie. For YEARS I was criticized for diving alone, long before solo was a thing. I finally asked an Instructor friend to sell me a solo card so I had one for liveaboards. I had logged about 2500 solo dives at that point, including mix dives in excess of 200'. Not everyone's cup of tea, but also nobody else's business.
So relax, and let your friend do what he wants. If he does something stupid, he'll learn, or die, but either way it's his choice.
Just a further thought about "exceeding your training and experience"... So since the PADIfication of diving where every little skill requires a new course to the point of becoming absurd, we old guys progressed through more and more "advanced" dives by diving with more experienced friends, or progressing on our own and learning the hard way sometimes. I often make time to dive with never divers and I sometimes chuckle at what they believe will happen if they "exceed their training". I understand what you're saying, but so many divers have "drunk the Koolaid" and believe that if you buy a new pair of fins, you need to take a course to learn how to use them. (Exaggeration for effect!)
As for exceeding one's experience, isn't every new dive somewhat like that? If you go 10' deeper, or somewhere where there's a current, or it's dark? That's how we learn.... Moving through more complex dives slowly and carefully and learning as you go. I did a 110' solo night dive on Saturday night... no biggie, but when I posted a couple of pics, so folks were amazed I didn't die.
Having said all this, I lost a friend in the Florida caves a few years ago.. He'd only been diving three years and had amassed dozens of certifications in that time. On paper, he was well-qualified to do the dive he died on. What killed him was his arrogant attitude. You can't train that out of someone and when he died, I wasn't the least bit surprised.
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