I found CO in tanks

[tbone1004]

@2airishuman there is no filter stack on the rix, that was the point. literally 0 filter stacks, only coalescers. Most people I know put a filter stack on them, but they do not come with one, nor do they need one to produce grade E air

 

[TMHeimer]

In the US, yeah - but I would have to wonder: If the compressor is letting 6 ppm CO into tanks what else are they passing?

10ppm would not be a problem if you didn't dive. If you do submerge, increasing atmosphere, then the problem happens - and it's complicated. Even if you were fine at 130 feet breathing tainted air and loading up your blood with CO, as you ascend - PPO drops but PPCO remains much longer, so the PPO that was keeping you alive stops doing that as well.

Many developed countries limit the max to 5ppm, some 3ppm - for good reason. But fill stations seldom have inline CO monitors nor test.


No, the reason a person needs to think twice about naming the provider is that law suits happen. Scubaboard once nearly got bankrupted by one. The accused was guilty and the lawsuit was frivolous, but it took a lot of money to establish that. The person posting the accusation may do so with a screen name, but s/he can still be sued.


Famous last words. Past performance is no indication. Compressors overheat, burn their own lubricating oil, and produce CO at times - maybe in only a few tanks. Ever play Russian Roulette with real bullets?


Not true, not in the least.


The agencies don't even require than shops have their air tested. They used to, but it wasn't enforced, and besides - most shops would take samples only at the best times. Even then, 3% failed. 3 poison tanks out of 100?

Thanks for the advice. I corrected my TYPO from CAN to CAN'T smell it, 2 pages back. You missed that. Ie., as a DM of course I know you can't smell CO.

 

[Steve_C]

It is not just the ppm but also the dive. As Dandy Don noted. I really do not care that in a hospital setting they allow x% whatever x is. The hospital is at 1 ATM or maybe less. I care what I am breathing a several Atmospheres.

 

[DandyDon]

Thanks for the advice. I corrected my TYPO from CAN to CAN'T smell it, 2 pages back. You missed that. Ie., as a DM of course I know you can't smell CO.

Yes, well - you didn't edit that post; you admitted to a typo a few posts later. That leaves room for confusion if a person starts reading 60 posts in the disussion.

So the usual smell test wouldn't work.

Worthless. Just the agencies smokescreen approach to a real problem they will not address safely, as that'd be bad for business to tell a new student diver that his first piece of scuba equipment he needs to buy beyond the snorkel gear he used to train with rented scuba gear is a tank tester. It'd also be bad for DAN business, so they avoid the issue as well.

I have read that a whole group of divers could go unconscious at once if they got fills at the same place.

It could happen. It happened to the liveaboard accident that lead to the slander lawsuit that almost bankrupted Scubaboard, altho some were injured while others died. Or it can happen to tank #14 out of 20 filled. Only one way to know: test the tank, whether before the dive or after someone is hurt or killed. With so little testing being done, injuries can often be written off as travelers'-flu and deaths as medical events & drownings.

It happened to just two divers on a Roatan Island trip, with the DM & a Texas diver dying. At first the famous resort tried to blame the Texan for killing the DM, but his widow was there at the time, lived the horror watching it, sued as challenging as that was to sue a business in another country - then settled with a non-disclosure agreement, the worse thing that's ever happened to the legal system.

I see what you mean--he apparently tests lots of stuff.

Stuff? I test every tank. One of my units is a Sensorcon that is easy to wear on cargo pants, and I don't mind looking like a geek, so I wear it almost everywhere to monitor the air in my car, restaurants, etc. - and certainly for hotel rooms since very few have alarms.

I do have 3 different tank test units. Costly to buy and keep maintained, yes - just a personal issue I've taken on.

I wonder how many people test their houses and elsewhere?

You don't test houses; you buy a few cheap CO alarms. Do you not have any for your bedrooms? Every house should have a few just like smoke alarms, but they're not as common as affordable technology is more recent for them than for smoke.

The only thing I ever really thought about with CO was those committing suicide in the car/garage thing.

I think most deaths from cars running in the garage are accidental when the quiet vehicle is just overlooked and left running, eventually poisoning the entire house. More deaths happen in homes and hotels from heating system problems, fireplaces left smoldering, etc. Google the word monoxide, then click news, then read the headlines for a couple of pages. Accidents are more common up north but happen in Florida and other warm states. The St.John's airport was recently closed in Nova Scotia when the tower had to be evacuated. Three were found dead in an idling car in Conklin, Alberta this month. A family of four were found dead inside an Arizona vacation cabin this month. And so on.

Cars can become especially hazardous if left idling and the exhaust blocked by snow, but exhaust system problems are varied. All cars should carry one of those badges they sell for planes, but you have to replace them annually and look at them frequently: ASA Carbon Monoxide Detector

 

[ScubaSteve85]

As someone who just had the fire department respond to my apartment last weekend for a CO leak, I am acutely aware of the danger, and just how suddenly a problem can manifest. In my case, it was a rusting boiler that partially collapsed and wasn't allowing for proper ventilation. Luckily I stayed up late that night and heard the alarm going off in the unoccupied apartment downstairs. Gave me plenty of time to get the family out and wake up the upstairs neighbor as well.

Anyway, little off topic, but suffice to say that this issue is currently hitting close to home for me and is definitely something I worry about. I do think naming the shop would be appropriate here so that other divers would know to be cautious and we can see if the problem has been resolved. Since OP was a vacation diver and not a regular at the shop, we really have no way of knowing if this was ever followed up on.

Also, since we're on the topic, are there any good CO analyzers that folks here recommend? Do they have the same maintaintance requirements/sensor change intervals as those that analyze O2 percentage?

 

[Schwob]

Also, since we're on the topic, are there any good CO analyzers that folks here recommend? Do they have the same maintaintance requirements/sensor change intervals as those that analyze O2 percentage?

I second that question.
Especially would love to know if there might be a good, robust, reliable unit that does not require calibrating every so often with a calibration gas etc...

 

[nadwidny]

In Canada for commercial diving operations, 3ppm CO is the limit.(CSA Z275.2-15). In the lab I work at our official limit of detection for CO is 0.75ppm although we can see less than that, around 0.1ppm. In most of the samples we get there is no CO ( or less than 0.1ppm), and if we do see anything above that, usually the CO2 and moisture are elevated as well which means the filter is probably past its' prime.

Which brings us to a point someone earlier made; if there is CO in your gas then there is usually other stuff. Any CO in compressed breathing air is not good and is indicative of more problems and/or poor maintenance.

 

[49north]

Anyway, little off topic, but suffice to say that this issue is currently hitting close to home for me and is definitely something I worry about. I do think naming the shop would be appropriate here so that other divers would know to be cautious and we can see if the problem has been resolved. Since OP was a vacation diver and not a regular at the shop, we really have no way of knowing if this was ever followed up on.

Also, since we're on the topic, are there any good CO analyzers that folks here recommend? Do they have the same maintaintance requirements/sensor change intervals as those that analyze O2 percentage?

I know some people want me to name the shop, but I am not comfortable doing that. I think the important thing to take away from this is that it could happen at any shop at anytime. @DandyDon has alluded to this on several occasions. We should be analyzing our tanks.

As for the CO analyzers, I have confidence in my Palm CO. I think it did it’s job today. It does have similar maintenance/sensor change intervals as an O2 analyzer. Only difference is the sensors are about twice the cost. Worth it though after my experience today.

 

[DandyDon]

There is a recent discussion on CO tank testers here: CO Analysers

Luckily I stayed up late that night and heard the alarm going off in the unoccupied apartment downstairs.

What about your apartment? Do you not have CO alarms at home?

Well, glad y'all escaped unharmed.

 

[ScubaSteve85]

There is a recent discussion on CO tank testers here: CO Analysers


What about your apartment? Do you not have CO alarms at home?

Well, glad y'all escaped unharmed.

Thanks for the link. I do, however, the levels had not raised significantly enough in my apartment to trigger an alarm yet. Just for good measure, after this happened, I did buy another one anyway. I took the 'ol scuba approach and figured redundancy can never hurt. Interestingly enough, of the three brand new smoke/co alarms downstairs, only one went off and it wasn't even the one closest to the source.