Liveaboard tipping, what is the local custom?

[Lorenzoid]

From how we did for tipping in the past (group tipping), the crew didn't know how much they get & from whom. I only know what I put in, not what the others put in, unless he or she personally told me so. It's an honor system. May be that may not be effective in your opinion, but they seem to accept it & please to receive it.

I do also put comments to their service evaluation form for any improvement needed or if they did a great job.

What I meant was that because so many divers have different perspectives about tipping (e.g., an American versus an Australian), I wouldn't be surprised if the aggregate tips averaged out to a more or less constant baseline over the year. If that happens, the crew will never know from the tip amount alone that some customers felt the crew was underperforming. I think the service evaluation form is really the key here.


@chillyinCanada , I would be surprised if everyone on the Dewi Nusantara did not feel they received truly amazing service. It's my understanding that the Dewi is one of the top-rated liveaboards in the world (and beyond my budget). I suspect they are consistently booked solid. In my humble opinion, if 10% is really the norm, they should just bump the price 10% and be done with it, making sure customers know that tipping is absolutely not expected. Or raise it 5% or 2% or whatever. Their well-heeled customers will understand, and maybe even appreciate the simplified process. As divers hail from all over the world these days, the tipping thing causes nothing but confusion, as evidenced by this and so many other threads, on SB and elsewhere.

 

[Dan]

well, thats the thing..what is good service?
Lets say on a liveaboard I would expect good service by the crew as part of the package..
If an individual goes beyond the level of good service I might consider thanking them personally with a tip.
Examples:
- Find some rare or very special photo opportunity and notifying me of this/help me really get a great pic
- go out of the way to do something for me such as repairing gear
- extend a dive
....
I would be curious as to what others think about good service and for what kind of things they would consider a tip.

This is my opinion & you don't have to agree. A good service is doing what is written in the crew job description or what the cruise director describes their job during welcoming introduction & safety briefing or whatever written in their brochure. If I get sick from food poisoning or my gear get damage from rough handling, then that is a poor service. I consider your examples are above & beyond the good service, tip them more than 10% and I would make positive comment, acknowledge these individual crews and let the captain aware about them.

 

[Dan]

Another case for me in Galápagos. It's an expensive trip, about $6000 for a week of liveaboard. The plan was to have 1 day diving in Darwin & 2 days in Wolf, which was what I wanted to do & the reason that I picked this liveaboard. Well, they changed their plan on the fly to 2 days in Darwin & 1 day in Wolf. I had to dive in the same spot for 8 times (4 dives / day) with doing fast negative entries straight to the bottom each time to avoid from getting blown away by the fast current, seeing same few of hammerheads and that got to be monotonous. Pissed me off. Wolf turned out as great dives as expected & I got only 1 day to do it. So, I tipped them $400 (7%).

 

[Pkishino]

This is my opinion & you don't have to agree. A good service is doing what is written in the crew job description or what the cruise director describes their job during welcoming introduction & safety briefing or whatever written in their brochure. If I get sick from food poisoning or my gear get damage from rough handling, then that is a poor service. I consider your examples are above & beyond the good service, tip them more than 10% and I would make positive comment, acknowledge these individual crews and let the captain aware about them.

I agree Dan, the examples I mentioned were supposed to be of going beyond good service. But I think 10% would be excessive depending on the LOB cost.. in the past on some LOB with our full group booking the vessel my friend who organised it all had payed everything in advance, included everything (alcohol etc etc) and a 5% service charge so no tipping needed. Other times when I asked some of the people it ranged from 0 - 50ish euro max. That seems reasonable for a 1 week standard LOB to me if again, not gone wildly beyond standards.

 

[Pkishino]

Another case for me in Galápagos. It's an expensive trip, about $6000 for a week of liveaboard. The plan was to have 1 day diving in Darwin & 2 days in Wolf, which was what I wanted to do & the reason that I picked this liveaboard. Well, they changed their plan on the fly to 2 days in Darwin & 1 day in Wolf. I had to dive in the same spot for 8 times (4 dives / day) with doing fast negative entries straight to the bottom each time to avoid from getting blown away by the fast current, seeing same few of hammerheads and that got to be monotonous. Pissed me off. Wolf turned out as great dives as expected & I got only 1 day to do it. So, I tipped them $400 (7%).

wow,
I just mentioned this to some of my dive buddies here at the shop, many who have been on dozens of LOBS around the world, cheap and expensive ones, they all said that your case would definitely be a 0 tip trip.
At most one guy had tipped 100euro in truk

 

[Dan]

wow,
I just mentioned this to some of my dive buddies here at the shop, many who have been on dozens of LOBS around the world, cheap and expensive ones, they all said that your case would definitely be a 0 tip trip.
At most one guy had tipped 100euro in truk

Well, the Cruise Director & the Captain might made poor decision (for me), but other crews did well for offering me hot cocoa after the dives, consistently supplying clean, dry & warm towel after the cold-water diving (15-20C) and having clean bathroom & neatly fold bed sheets at the end of the day. Also, my tummy was doing well. So, I gave them partial credit for those good services.

 

[Pkishino]

Well, the Cruise Director & the Captain might made poor decision (for me), but other crews did well for offering me hot cocoa after the dives, consistently supplying clean, dry & warm towel after the cold-water diving (15-20C) and having clean bathroom & neatly fold bed sheets at the end of the day. Also, my tummy was doing well. So, I gave them partial credit for those good services.

to me that sounds like good service as provided as standard. These at least are standard services (hot drinks/towels/good food/cleanliness) we provide on our weekend trips here and none of us ever request or want a tip for this..

 

[Dan]

to me that sounds like good service as provided as standard. These at least are standard services (hot drinks/towels/good food/cleanliness) we provide on our weekend trips here and none of us ever request or want a tip for this..

How people earn their living in your country is different than in USA or in Indonesia. Here for example, restaurant waiters don't get good wages and most of them rely on the tips with standard tip rate of 15% (at least in my neighborhood) to make ends meet. Wages in Indonesia are even worse. So, I try to help them out by tipping what you consider generous and I consider average.

If I go to Europe, I would probably not doing the tipping as much as I do here at home.

 

[Lorenzoid]

Wages in Indonesia are even worse. So, I try to help them out by tipping what you consider generous and I consider average.

If I go to Europe, I would probably not doing the tipping as much as I do here at home.

So you base part of your decision in how much you tip on how poor you believe the people are? In my view, that is the definition of charity, not tipping. I am more than happy to contribute to Indonesia's economy--I agree they need it--and maybe I would even make a donation to a local charity, but I don't take their relative poverty compared to people in some other countries into consideration in deciding how much I tip. If someone's wages are not in line with the wages of other people in the same country, there is something else wrong with the labor market. I have to believe the wages of liveaboard crews are good by Indonesian standards.

It's completely different in the US because the law actually allows a certain category of employee--the so-called "tipped employee"--to be paid less than what most of us think of as the minimum wage. Under the US scheme, we the customers are expected to pay our share of the employee's value in the form of a tip. The 15-20% tip in the US is primarily part of the person's ordinary compensation; any adjustment for quality of service is secondary from the perspective of the wage laws. If the person doesn't earn enough from tips to cover minimum wage, the person's employer is required to add that to the person's wages. As far as I'm aware, this system is unlike any elsewhere in the world. Comparing the practice of tipping as the scheme works in the US for a certain category of employee with tipping as it may be practiced elsewhere in the world is comparing apples to oranges.

 

[Dan]

So you base part of your decision in how much you tip on how poor you believe the people are? In my view, that is the definition of charity, not tipping. I am more than happy to contribute to Indonesia's economy--I agree they need it--and maybe I would even make a donation to a local charity, but I don't take their relative poverty compared to people in some other countries into consideration in deciding how much I tip. If someone's wages are not in line with the wages of other people in the same country, there is something else wrong with the labor market. I have to believe the wages of liveaboard crews are good by Indonesian standards.

It's completely different in the US because the law actually allows a certain category of employee--the so-called "tipped employee"--to be paid less than what most of us think of as the minimum wage. Under the US scheme, we the customers are expected to pay our share of the employee's value in the form of a tip. The 15-20% tip in the US is primarily part of the person's ordinary compensation; any adjustment for quality of service is secondary from the perspective of the wage laws. If the person doesn't earn enough from tips to cover minimum wage, the person's employer is required to add that to the person's wages. As far as I'm aware, this system is unlike any elsewhere in the world. Comparing the practice of tipping as the scheme works in the US for a certain category of employee with tipping as it may be practiced elsewhere in the world is comparing apples to oranges.

If you consider it as charity, so be it. At least I like the idea of donating to people that make good effort to get it rather than donating to charity that I may not even know how much the actual money be filtered down to the real needy. I feel good about it, so do they from looking at their expression and how their are treating me.

In the end you do what you please. It is your vacation. If you don't feel right to give as much as other would, just don't do it. You already paid the whole expensive trip. What would they do if you don't tip at all? Deny you on booking your next trip?