Cannot find a reason for AOW certification

[mi000ke]

If instead of thinking of AOW as learning/demonstrating a fixed set of skills (most of which many of us attained just by experience), you think about it as a more general learning opportunity, than I can think of two good reasons to do it, plus a third that made it a financial no-brainer for me:

1) An opportunity to have a personal dive with a DM to work on whatever issues or skills you would like to diagnose and improve: For me it was fine tuning my buoyancy and trim and making my underwater movements more efficient. So I discussed this with the instructor and that's really what we worked on for each dive, including my nav dive. It was an opportunity to get personal instruction on things I wanted to work on in general - so we did them on deep, on a wreck dive, a boat dive, a nav dive and a PPB dive.
2) If there is a specialty you might want to investigate - for me it was nav
3) the no brainer: I got five dives with a personal DM for essentially the same cost as it would have been if I had gone with the rest of the group. So for the same price, I got personal instruction and my AOW cert. If you can find a deal likek this then why not do it?

 

[ljpm]

PADI doesn't have any say as far as I know in managing a charter that isn't owned by them. I doubt that PADI would even have any interest in the liability exposure in any kind of a charter service that wasn't directly under their supervision.

PADI does have a say in how a charter is managed, at least in an indirect way. PADI is by far the largest diver training agency. Scuba is also for the most part a self regulating sport/industry. PADI guidelines/policies/regulations are then used by dive shops, charters to set their policy. I don't find it unusual to questions whether PADI policy is related to safety concerns and therefore part of their responsibility in self regulating or part of their profit making (nothing wrong with making a profit). In the case of AOW there seems to be a lot of people that feel the experience is substantially better than the course experience. I now know that PADI does not state an absolute limit. "as you gain more experience you are no longer "limited" to the OW suggested limitations" Jamesbon92007
PADI diveshops, the public face of PADI, however enforce these suggested limits. Why? Although liability is stated it seems more anecdotal. Others have stated it may have to do with selling courses.

As someone else stated, their charter their rules. They of course are correct. That doesn't stop me from disagreeing.

 

[boulderjohn]

I am quite sure it is because of liability. I witnessed just such an incident this past winter in Florida. A man signed up for a deepish (100 foot) wreck dive using an OW card. The shop manager told him the dive required at least an advanced certification. The man said he was actually an assistant instructor, but he was following the (seriously misguided) policy of showing only his lowest card when he signed up for a dive. Unfortunately for him, the Internet was down at the moment, so they could not get to PADI to verify his certification level. The shop manager said he believed him, but could not let him dive for insurance reasons. He needed to see a card that was advanced or higher. Eventually they let him do the dive under the condition that he stay with the DM throughout the dive. The shop's policy was to have a DM in the water at all times, so it did not cost him anything extra.

 

[HantsDiver]

Another posted said no tech agency would give her any training without an AOW card.

Firstly I said no such thing. I simply asked a question.

And more importantly - I'm a guy. I'm not a "her"! I've been trying to clean up my image on here and being more diplomatic and then I get accused of being a girl. I'm going back to being obnoxious.

 

[stuartv]

Firstly I said no such thing. I simply asked a question.

And more importantly - I'm a guy. I'm not a "her"! I've been trying to clean up my image on here and being more diplomatic and then I get accused of being a girl. I'm going back to being obnoxious.

The "her" I was referring to was the OP's wife. Sorry my clarification is too late...

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Which tech agency will take an experienced OW diver without them having AOW or a further qualification for technical training?

I'm sure there is one - but I've not heard of them.

GUE ... but you have to begin with Fundies, which is not a tech class ... nor is it a substitute for AOW ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

This is a thread about someone who is an experience rec diver and pondering the value of getting an AOW card.

A poster suggested going to a tech agency to get some training that would actually give them some value and also a card that could be shown in lieu of an AOW card.

Another posted said no tech agency would give her any training without an AOW card.

My post was in response to that last statement, and I stand by it. Intro to Tech is a course that offers the same type of curriculum as, for example, GUE Fundamentals. I don't know if either one would be accepted by a dive operator in lieu of an actual AOW card. I reckon that is purely up to the individual dive operator. But, it seems to me that Intro (and Fundies) is certainly more advanced training that someone can take from a "tech agency" and without having to already have an AOW card.

Both Intro to Tech and Fundamentals are valuable classes, and an experienced recreational diver is likely to get a lot out of them. However, I'll speak directly about my Fundamentals experience ... it did not contain anything specifically related to deep diving or navigation. It primarily focuses on the mechanics of diving skills that you'll need to have mastered prior to enrolling in a tech class. I'm thinking Intro to Tech is pretty similar. Neither card would gain you acceptance on a boat looking for deep training in order to let you do that type of dive ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[JamesBon92007]

Do you notice any mentoring going on in the last 20 years? I'm trying to figure out when that fell out of fashion. Probably around the same time as the internet and social media became popular. Nowadays building a relationship with someone only goes as far as sending a friend request to Facebook or following them on Snapchat - whatever that is . .
I mean mentoring in everything dive related from soup to nuts - from how to beach dive to how to service your own equipment - yes, even your "life support" equipment. We didn't have to "pay" for any of that stuff except in hamburgers and soft drinks and the occasional pack of cigarettes.

I have never had a dive op even bring up the subject of certification level required for any dive. I suppose I'm covered because I have my PADI Pro number memorized and they can just look it up on their computer but your idea of calling NAUI and asking for my original Basic Scuba Diver card issued in the latter half of the 20th century would probably raise some eyebrows followed by a short e-mail stating - "Dear Sir - we don't keep records past a certain expiration date"

I'm not sure if I would call it "mentoring" but I would generally get such things as repair tips when I was getting my tank filled at the dive shop, plus if a new piece of equipment became available I got "reviews" of it and knew what to buy and what not to buy. They weren't just trying to sell me something, they we simply telling me what was good and what was crap. I believe that there is still much of that going on here on SB but it requires more sorting and verification. The part I would call mentoring would be If someone wanted to do cave diving or deep diving etc you found someone with experience and followed their lead. Some of the info in my basic course might be considered an introduction and we were expected to pursue more information on our own.

As far as I knew at the time NAUI had only two certification levels: Scuba Diver and Instructor. If there was such a thing as an "Advanced" course I never heard about it. Even when my ex-wife took her course in '83 it was still just "Scuba Diver." The courses she and I took encompassed what might be called "advanced" plus rescue, deep diving, deco diving, equipment maintenance, cave diving, search and recovery, shipwreck penetration, and even how to make ceviche. Navigation seemed to be lacking however that was well-covered in an issue of Skin Diver magazine. The emphasis was on self-reliance and not on equipment. I have ran into newly-certified divers who conducted themselves as though they were well-experienced. My original C-Card says "20 hours" of course time but actually it was longer than that--I don't think the ocean dives were included in that 20 hours. I remember wondering why they only put "20" on my card. And yes, when I contacted NAUI they told me their records did not go back that far. But since I still have my original C-Cards and knew the name of the instructor and dive shop I sent them that information. When I was in Costa Rica last year the dive op said they found that information when they looked me up.

So, knowing all of this, I suspect that the OW course that OP took was probably more extensive than a current AOW course so the certification agency might consider issuing an updated card such as NAUI did for me. I would have to go back and re-read all the posts to see if he mentioned which agency it was, but that might make a difference due to the apparent differences in philosophy (put another dollar in?). I did have to send NAUI about $28 but my old records are now on file and my new C-Card will get me on any dive boat that I'm likely to want to be on.

 

[Bison]

If instead of thinking of AOW as learning/demonstrating a fixed set of skills (most of which many of us attained just by experience), you think about it as a more general learning opportunity, than I can think of two good reasons to do it, plus a third that made it a financial no-brainer for me:

1) An opportunity to have a personal dive with a DM to work on whatever issues or skills you would like to diagnose and improve: For me it was fine tuning my buoyancy and trim and making my underwater movements more efficient. So I discussed this with the instructor and that's really what we worked on for each dive, including my nav dive. It was an opportunity to get personal instruction on things I wanted to work on in general - so we did them on deep, on a wreck dive, a boat dive, a nav dive and a PPB dive.
2) If there is a specialty you might want to investigate - for me it was nav
3) the no brainer: I got five dives with a personal DM for essentially the same cost as it would have been if I had gone with the rest of the group. So for the same price, I got personal instruction and my AOW cert. If you can find a deal likek this then why not do it?

Great points brought out here. Another reason to do the AOW and may I say the Nitrox class is to avoid the limitations placed by certain charters. I've seen charters not only limit a diver based on AOW certification, but the charter has denied a diver access to the boat without nitrox certification. Get the courses/ knowledge base the charters are looking for and avoid this confrontation.

 

[boulderjohn]

As far as I knew at the time NAUI had only two certification levels: Scuba Diver and Instructor. If there was such a thing as an "Advanced" course I never heard about it. Even when my ex-wife took her course in '83 it was still just "Scuba Diver." T

This history of NAUI, co-written by NAUI co-founder and Instructor #1 Al Tillman, describes the creation of the NAUI advanced program in the mid-60s. It tells how it was patterned after the Los Angeles program, which Tillman had led prior to forming NAUI, and was primarily designed to introduce divers to different kinds of diving in the hope something would pique their interest and keep them diving.