Advice: hitting the ground running, or biting off more than I can chew?

[wetb4igetinthewater]

@The Chairman @scubadada @wetb4igetinthewater So this thread's getting even more fun. It raises another question that underlies some of my thinking. I'm approaching this (based partly on experience w/other sports) with the idea that I should get the best training I can, early and often, and there's no such thing as too soon, if they let me in the class. I'd understand it better and get more out of it if I had more experience, but on the flip side, the more (quality) training I get now, the higher my odds of having fun, being safe, and sticking around in the sport. Thoughts on that approach? To be clear: I'm not saying I plan on pushing the limits of any certification I can earn, as if all it takes is a card. Hopefully that's clear from the fact that I'm here asking for advice on these dives. I just want as many tools in my toolbox as I can get.

@cupofjoe,

I wouldn't suggest going overboard and training non stop. Diving is supposed to be fun. Yes, it is good to get quality training, but at the end of the day, it is about enjoyment of the underwater world. Proper training will help you to get the most out of your time underwater and to do so safely. But how much training you get is up to you. The important thing in any course is establishing what you will learn and what skills you will acquire (and what are the performance requirements, as these can have a wide range of interpretations).

I would say, yes, get a good base of diving skills now. I regret not taking GUE fundies earlier. It is very important that you educate yourself on the right instructor and the right training. If an instructor evaluates your skillset and tells you that it is too soon to take some course, that instructor is doing you a favor if he/she spends a little time with you to make you understand what you need to work on. While AOW has 5 adventure dives, my students often don't complete the performance requirements for each adventure dive in one dive. And that's fine with my students (and me). It sounds like you are committed to working hard, so make sure that you find an instructor who is equally dedicated to improving your skills and knowledge. So, forget about "squeezing in" a course. Focus on knowledge and acquisition of the skills you want to have. While not perfect, GUE has some good skills videos that you can watch for 3 days for free. Here's a link divegue.tv

 

[Steve_C]

OK, after a couple hundred dives in tropical waters, quarries, and off the NC coast I did some shore dives off the coast of California and up in Vancouver. The big difference was not so much the surge though that takes getting used to. The big difference for me was the long surface swims in heavy wet suits required for some dives. Places with short swims I could still do 2 dives and in places like Catalina several more. But on the long swim dives after doing one dive, I felt tired and did just one. Also some of these dives required going up and down trails in full gear with a lot of vertical which can also tire you out if you are not used to it.

As for follow the instructor, use your own head. One day we showed up (at Lajolla shores this time) and my instructor /guide called it because the surf was too high. We were standing around with some other instructors who had also called their dives. When down troops this large (at least 12 probably more) OW students and a few DM and instructors. They line up just outside the surf and when there is a calm minute they all charge forward. Just as they get to waist deep a really big swell breaks. All disappears from sight. Some reappear outside the breakers and reform. Several are washed up on the beach. Some of those are having trouble getting control again. So the folks watching went down and helped the students out of the water. There is absolutely no way that most of that class was within sight of the instructors for an extended period.

 

[MichaelMc]

So - thoughts? I'm especially eager to hear from folks who know the dive sites out there, for example the La Jolla Shores North and South walls.

I dove Vallecitos Point (North wall) years ago. La Jolla Shores is an easy entry beach, it is a recreational swimming beach after all. This site has nice information: Divebums - A San Diego Dive Website, and more than my vague memory. I recall some surge in < 10' depth on our swim in. But not out deeper. But we might have just had a nice day. I did it in a 5mm farmer john and beaver tail and was happy, not sure what time of year though. Vis was at least 15' or more at depth, and even in the shallows, on the swim in we saw a shark swimming around all the kids and parents standing in the shallow water. It takes decent vis to see that.

It is a real wall, with deeper than you want to go below you. (Edit: Well, there is at least a canyon below you.) So buoyancy control is something you must have. Trim just makes managing that while moving and stopping a lot easier, and is highly recommended for that reason and to reduce your task loading.

There used to be some very nice kelp forest up north, at a site down a long flight of stairs. Shallow, 30-60', but very nice. Have fun.

 

[Steve_C]

There used to be some very nice kelp forest up north, at a site down a long flight of stairs. Shallow, 30-60', but very nice. Have fun.

Sounds like Lajolla cove which is just south of the shores. Had a nice dive there. The large numbers of sea lions may have had some comments on my style.

 

[MichaelMc]

Sounds like Lajolla cove which is just south of the shores. Had a nice dive there. The large numbers of sea lions may have had some comments on my style.

The ones at the shores were two in June 55 degrees, max depth 68', 10-20' vis. Another in September, 64 degrees, 61' max depth, 20-30' vis. Suits were rental body glove full plus hood, gloves, thickness 6.5mm, apparently I was warm. My log says surge started at 40' on way in.

The north dives were two at Swami, in June, 68 degrees, first very silty at 12' average depth, vis 5'. Second, right after, 16' avg, 31' max depth, 15-20' vis.

The cove is nice as well. A very short dive I did was on a beach of almost fist size cobble stones. We entered off some reef/rocks on the right, by the time we reached the bottom my buddy was at 700 psi from the entry and surface swim. Very bad buddy awareness on my part.

 

[Lorenzoid]

I did my OW training dives at La Jolla Shores in 1998. @MichaelMc's post above is more informative, because we didn't dive the walls. What I do know is that the site can be tailored to suit one's level of experience, right down to OW training dives. It's a very popular site with divers of all levels. As MichaelMc points out, there is stuff to see in the shallower parts. We wore 7 mm suits and hoods, and I hated it. The experience in my OW training of having to wear such thick exposure protection led to me confining my diving to the tropics for a decade after that. I finally bought a drysuit last year, and one of my goals is to return to my old stomping (or finning) grounds and see what I missed.

 

[OldPhotog]

I did it in a 5mm farmer john and beaver tail and was happy, not sure what time of year though.

Okay, I give. What is a "beaver tail" - in terms of scuba diving protection?

 

[MichaelMc]

Okay, I give. What is a "beaver tail" - in terms of scuba diving protection?

It's a top that has a tail in the back that comes up through the crotch and is attached to the front of the body. Typically it has an attached hood, with the zipper running from mid chest down. Very warm with the attached hood as there are few water entry points, though fun to get into if very thick.

Edit: Two of the images here are of beaver tails, one with, one without hood. Wetsuit - Wikipedia

 

[outofofficebrb]

@cupofjoe I'm very comfortable with my buoyancy now and even after so many dives, I have a general rule that I like to keep to that someone once said to me when I was newly certified that I will always remember: Try to stick with only one new thing at a time on a dive. That means whether it's a piece of a equipment, a dive situation, etc. This might mean not having a new camera and using a new BC while also doing your first deep dive and night dive from a task load and mental perspective. I've taken this to heart and this has worked well for me. I think it allows me to learn and take more away from the dive than I would have if I were focused on too many other things. It lets me become a better diver and improve with each dive rather than just "dealing". I hope that makes sense.

Whatever decision you make, I would stick to your intuition and do what you think feels the best. You can choose to not dive for whatever reason and shouldn't feel bad about it. If you're not sure it's a good idea or are hesitant, which is what I am sensing is being conveyed, then it might not be the best idea but only you can make that call.

Some things to consider: Where did you get certified and was it warm or cold water? What exposure protection were you wearing and how was viz, surge, current, etc.? These are things to think about because they will affect how your dives in La Jolla will be if you were certified in warm water, a 3mm suit (or maybe a lycra skin!), and had great viz or no surge, etc. You'd have to pack on a lot more weight, wear a lot more exposure protection (gloves, hood, boots, etc.) while dragging yourself up the beach with all that weight. You may have to deal with low viz, current, surge. On top of that, if you are doing a night dive, good buoyancy is important. I know coming out of OW certification, I did not have that dialed in but perhaps you are better than I was.

Please keep us posted on what you decide and I hope you have a good time whatever decision you make!

Just do the AOW as and when you can. I wouldn't sweat it. Diving in the ocean isn't as scary as some people are making out. I regularly dive in far worst conditions then you will experience and have a great time. AOW is experiencing 5 different types of diving and seeing if they are for you. It's meant to be 5 glorified fun dives. Nothing more and nothing less.

I'd also just trust the instructor. It's their judgment call. No one on the internet is in a better position than them.

And don't stress the neutral buoyancy and trim stuff. In openwater, it's a nice party trick but not the most important thing in the world. And the course might make you better anyway. As you develop and dive more it will happen. Diving with more experienced people will help. It's become a big thing on the internet as a marketing ploy - the reality is in open water is generally doesn't matter at all.

Like some of the others, I also have differing opinions from yours. It's the internet, so it's okay!

When I took AOW, it wasn't just 5 glorified fun dives...I think you actually learn a lot and fine tune many skills, especially PPB (Peak Performance Buoyancy), navigation, and night diving. This may be a function of how good (or not) one's instructor is though.

I would also not "just trust the instructor" because they can't tell someone what's okay or what isn't if they aren't comfortable with it. The OP is obviously asking because they're either not sure it's a good idea or has some hesitation about it and wants some opinion. I'm a believer in even if someone else thinks it's okay to do something, if you don't, you shouldn't have to go through with it and you sure don't have to explain. There is a great thread somewhere on Scubaboard that talks about the craziest things they've heard instructors or DMs say for a reason. I think it's important to take the instructor's suggestions and listen to it, but I don't think it's THEIR judgement call to make for the OP or any diver.

I also completely disagree that neutral buoyancy and being trim is just a nice party trick. I think it's the fundamental aspect of diving and is really important, especially on a night dive, from a safety perspective. Orientation is a challenge for some people while night diving and I think poor buoyancy is amplified then. It could be a recipe for disaster with runaway ascents or accidentally bumping into something that is potentially dangerous.

 

[The Chairman]

No I don't know how to do it.

There you go. Five minutes in the pool and you'd have it down. It's just that easy. You wouldn't need to touch the bottom, ascend to the surface or look like a monkey trying to hump a football.

Because I think it's totally ridiculous.

In 48 years of diving, I've had to doff and don my Scuba unit only once. I wish I knew then what I know now.

Can you think of a single situation where someone who is diving as part of a unified team would need to do this?

You have to do a doff and don of the Scuba unit to get certified. Other than that, I've only had to do this once and that was due to my own stupidity.

Wouldn't your students time be better spent making them better buddies?

Probably, but it's not my choice. Since I have to teach it anyway, I turn it into a skill and confidence building exercise. I also buddy breathe two lengths of the pool. That will never be done in OW, but it's great for confidence and learning how to time your breathing. I have students picking up weights off the bottom of the pool and breathing them neutral. They won't do that in OW, but boy oh boy, do they have buoyancy and breathing figured out by the end of the exercise. The goal of my OW class is to produce a diver that could go straight into a cavern class when they graduate and not have their instructor worry about their trim, buoyancy or propulsion. You might not see the value in that, but my students do.

Do your students do this in a drysuit and a twinset?

I live in the Florida Keys. Why would they need to? However, the technique would work exactly the same, so why not?

If they are connected I'll ask again how on earth can I ascend or descend in trim? By definition, I must be positively or negatively buoyant.

By breathing. It's about as hard as doing a doff and don of the scuba unit mid water.