The Observer Effect?

[BRT]

Man cannot violate the laws of nature. Everything we do is within the laws of nature. Primitive tool making did not keep nature untouched. Look at all the big game species that went extinct in North America 20-40,000 years ago. Man can make what seem to be good or bad decisions but they are all within nature.

Lots of species have been driven to extinction long before we began grunting around.

Its like natural or unnatural foods. All obey the laws of physics and chemistry. Some natural things are very deadly. Some "artificial" things are good. Judge on merits not on labels.

Personally I do not eat things that are rare or that I view as having rudimentary intelligence. (dolphins, primates, etc.) Intelligence is on a continuum. Now chickens they are so dumb they deserve to die.

Dolfins, primates, pigs????

 

[Storker]

I teach that gloves are the first symptom of bad planning and buoyancy.

Obviously wreck penetration is different but I never allow gloves on OW dives ever.

Come up here and try diving without gloves.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I not only wear gloves ... but they're dry gloves. Dress for your environment ... it's called exposure gear for a reason, and not wearing it because of some perceived rule or so you can brag about how tough you are is stupid. I have seen people have to be assisted onto a boat because their hands were too cold to grip a ladder. Don't be that person ... it ain't a competition.

... Bob (Grateful Diver )

 

[Scubamat]

I dive gloves in tropical water to prevent accedental damage to my hands. I make money from the use of my hands I don't wear glove so I can touch thing I wear gloves so if things touch me they are less likely to do harm. Last trip i film and videoed lots of coral and other critters didn't touch any of it but sure like having my gloves and full wetsuits on (despite 29c water) when one dive consisted of 100,000s of tiny jellyfish waiting between 3-7m. Interfering with wild has little to do with what the diver is and isn't wearing but with attitude of the diver this can only be addressed by education and maybe some actual policing of sites.

 

[Altamira]

Gloves are somewhat like guns, in that it is not the equipment that causes the problem: It is the quality of the person using the equipment. Personally, I think the "no gloves" approach required in some dive environments is idiotic at best as it prevents responsible divers from getting the best thermal and stinger protection possible, yet does nothing for those that will touch anything and everything while not wearing gloves. I have lost count of the number of DMs and Instructors that I have seen picking up and prodding wildlife to show their dive group, and have had more than a few become so insistent that I touch the critter that I had to give them the middle digit salute before they stopped pestering me and the wildlife.

I also get annoyed with myself for not bringing my gloves on a "no gloves" dive when the DM wants everybody to hang on to the anchor line, whether it is needed or not. The last dive I was on, the DM wanted all the divers to hold on to the anchor rope during the safety stop despite the fact the nylon rope was badly frayed, full of poking bristles and other nasty stuff, and when there was no current, or reason to hold the anchor line. Several of us were hovering nicely at the safety stop, and the rest of the divers were all bunched up like a cluster of grapes on the line (a different kind of cluster came to mind). If I had been wearing gloves, I would have obliged him, but since I was in a "no glove" environment, I just shook my head no because I had better things to do with my time than pick bristles out of my hands.

 

[Steve_C]

Dolfins, primates, pigs????

The ability to "think" is on a continuum with life forms. Our biocomputers are a collection of subroutines that go together to make us. Having had cats for a long time I know they can feel a need for security, a need for revenge*, and the ability to manipulate the environment. Slowly knocking off things from a dresser while looking at me until I get up and feed it is the use of tools by any logical definition of tool use.

I do not eat a lot of beef or pork but that is more for health reasons than any philosophical reasons. Domesticated pigs exist only because they can be eaten. If tomorrow the whole world quit eating pork you would not suddenly have several hundred million pigs living full healthy lives. You would have several hundred million pigs slaughtered and converted to chicken food and industrial products.

If I were chopped up and put in the trough the pigs (or chickens) would have no trouble eating me.

*Had a cat that when one particular neighborhood boy came over to visit, the cat would wait quietly in the living room sleeping on the floor. Then after a few minutes get up and slowly walk into the den. I would hear the kid yell when the cat snuck up on him and nailed him. Then cat would slowly walk back into living room and lay down, mission accomplished.

 

[Steve_C]

Back to gloves. Part of why I like NC diving. You can wear what ever you want. Following a DM is the exception. It is only on request and then it is a private DM. Usually you go up when NDL tells you to go up.

I do believe in not touching the wildlife if it can be avoided. (Surge happens) But usually the damage is minor and not forever. One of my favorite local dives is a sunken vessel. A couple decades ago it was bare metal. Today it is covered with life upon life. Now we are not talking giant elk horn coral or big brain corals which takes a lot longer but this local fauna continues to replace itself and any bare spot gets inhabited.

 

[The Chairman]

and not wearing it because of some perceived rule or so you can brag about how tough you are is stupid.

Wearing drysuit gloves here in the Keys would be just as "stupid". Putting on gloves for the occasional dip at Casino Point or Bonne Terre mines seems to be putting my self in danger since I am not used to gloves and would have to re-train my hands to be able to dive in them. As I said: I don't like gloves and so I don't wear them. I don't like wetsuits and/or drysuits and I avoid wearing them too. There's no rule and it's not so I can brag.

 

[EricTheDood]

I've recently been struggling with how my diving may be negatively impacting the marine life.

Anyone with the self-awareness to ask themselves that question is a net gain for the environment, IMO.

 

[ronscuba]

There are definitely some photographers and videographers touching and possibly damaging corals, reefs, marine life. However, I think they are the minority, not the majority.

Showing the world the beauty of the underwater world can bring attention to the necessity of protecting it.